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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by ionstormsucks
Right now I can only see one superficial idiot posting in this thread and that would be you Mr. "anonymous Guest". If you really want to bring forward an argument you should try to avoid being as offensive as you are. From the first post on you personally attacked people, fell back to name calling and cheap insults (which is btw not really an indication for wit so you might as well avoid that term).
And please stop repeating the same lame argument over and over again. What the hell has KOTOR2, Fallout 2 or any other game to do with Dungeon Lords? Noone in this thread rated these games, you can't even be sure if anyone here played them and you certainly don't know if anyone here liked them or not.
If you can't tolerate other people's opinion then you should stay away from forums of any kind.
I appologize for calling names, it was wrong, but fun.
"Right now I can only see one superficial idiot posting in this thread and that would be you Mr. "anonymous Guest"."
I don't see how I have been superficial at all. Nope, not even a little. Idiot I agree with, of course. And everyone knows who i am, I don't log in because I delte all my internet stuff often since everytime I run spybot 5 million things come up and I have a trojon that won't go away. But I'm not being tricky or fooling anyone.
"If you really want to bring forward an argument you should try to avoid being as offensive as you are."
I guess you've never been married. Anyway, thats half my charm. My other half is my poor grammar and spelling.
"From the first post on you personally attacked people, fell back to name calling and cheap insults (which is btw not really an indication for wit so you might as well avoid that term)."
I've only attacked pagan. My retort to your post contained no attacks, just a call for some clarification. I didn't fall back on name calling, I started out with it and continued to use it. My insults weren't cheap, they were baseless. A cheap insult would be an easy and obvious insult. A baseless insult has nothing to do with anything. As pirating and sexuality have nothing to do with rating a game, my insults were as meaningful as calling Mother Teresa a prostitute.
"And please stop repeating the same lame argument over and over again."
What argument is that? Consistency is lame?
"What the hell has KOTOR2, Fallout 2 or any other game to do with Dungeon Lords?"
Nothing besides Kotor 2 was unfinished and that didn't hurt its ratings, and FO2 was buggy. Key concepts of my lame argument about consistency.
"Noone in this thread rated these games, you can't even be sure if anyone here played them and you certainly don't know if anyone here liked them or not."
Well with other comparitive analysis, rating is pretty silly. If there was only one rubber ducky in the world and I rated it as a 4, that would mean nothing since there is no 3 or 5 rubber ducky to compare it to. I would listen to someone's opinion if their rating was consistent and grounded. I might not agree with them, but they are coming from the same place and I can form an idea of what they value and don't so i can compare my values to theirs. For instance if a reviewer, or forum posted loved diablo and its clones and rated them highly, but a game came out that was very similar to diablo and he/she rated it very low, he/she could probably form an opinion on what went wrong and why. If that same person rated all TBS games low, and then rated one high, he/she could probably point out what is different about this game to warrant a non-consistent review.
Another example is that I hate mmorpgs, but I played and liked wow. I could detail what I liked about it compared to the other mmorpgs I have tried and maybe someone with similar or opposite tastes could glean some value out of it. And as you point out, giving information is a lot better than name calling. I've seen people sling names at DL but that have had no information to back it up. They baslessly attacked something so I attacked them (or him/her whatever pagan is).
If calling people names is wrong, why can it be done second hand to HP? My name calling isn't hurting anyones chance at future employment or possibly taking money out of their pocket. And maybe not giving the little guys a fair shake is cool, and I'm just a big dork, bit I could care less if people were just consistent in their arguments and could back-up up what they said with examples and logic.
but the silliest thing about this statement of yours is this, "and you certainly don't know if anyone here liked them or not." thats the heart of my point. I'm trying to figure that out so their arguments can be grounded in some substance and then the compare/contrast validity segment can commense.
"If you can't tolerate other people's opinion then you should stay away from forums of any kind."
I can 100% tolorate other people's opions. What i can't tolerate is inconsistency, unformulated nonsense, unfairness, and lemming bandwagon behavior. If you have an opinion on something, I expect it to be formulated internally and also that you have reasons to back up that opinion. Opinions formed from nothing is ignorance. I have a lot of ideas that no one, or very few people argee with, like my definition of an rpg. I 100% disagree with some people, but as long as they have a consistent reason for their beliefs, I can tolorate and respect their opinion. If I am intolerant of ignorance, I see that as a good quality.
In your post after this one you have a formulated argument of why you don't like DL. I can respect that. If you listed other games and rated them, and told me why you rated them as such i might be able to poke wholes into your argument and bring the inconsistencies to light, but theire is no reason since at the end of the day people like or dislike something and sometimes its inconsistent, but true.
I think its awful how featurless games get a free ride, great reviews, and huge sales but the little guy gets attacked. I thinks its terrible when the current trend is same old same old, and creativity is hated and copycat stagnation is the name of the profit game. But check my posts. I have never opened my mouth and posted hatefilled posts when games like DS, Bards Tale, Jade Empire, and games of their kind have gotten good reviews for no reason. I read them, shake my head, and move on. The majority of people like games like DS, and I have no business telling them what they should like or what a reviewer should have given as a score. Once in a wgile I'll open my mouth when their is a great inconsistency that needs to be pointed out. And I'll defenitly open my mouth when people complain when a game gets a score of 7.6, and when people classify that game as an rpg and it has much more of the elements rpgers should want in a game, and the same people didn't say a damn thing when featurless games that barely contain an rpg element are considered the greatest rpg ever made gets near perfect reviews.
And btw, I agree with what you say about FO besides the story line. FO 2 2 barley had a story line. Open-ended, non-linear rpgs such as fallout can't really have a story line as linear games like fable, Jade empire, NWN, ect do, they have more of a story backdrop. Thats not a bad thing, and its a requirment for open-ended non-linear games like FO and morrowind. If you can go anywhere and do anything at anytime (for the most part) then the main story takes a backseat with key events triggering the furtherance of the story. In a linear game, you go where the game lets you and do what your supposed to and the story unfoldes the same for everyone. How i get through morrowind is 100% different as how you might have got through it. |
Thu May 12, 2005 11:57 pm |
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ionstormsucks
Village Dweller
Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Posts: 10
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Well, at least we're back on a level now where we can talk like civilized persons. Im glad about that.
After reading your post I still have some problem with the fact that again you imply that people are deliberately attacking a game because it was created by a rather small developer and let other companies get away with crappy games because they are bigger or better established. I can't agree to that. Maybe that is valid for games magazines (who somewhat depend on certain companies in the gaming business because to some extent they have to work with them) but not for the individual gamer. I don't care if a developer is small or big but what I do care for is my money (the one that I spend on a game). I was a great fan of Thief and Thief 2 but that didn't keep me from criticising Warren Spector and the 3rd part of the game (actually my forum name is a "relict" of that time). It was developed by a well established company (Ionstorm) and published a somewhat large publisher (Eidos). And sure, Ionstorm as well as Warren Spector were responsible for a few good games but that can't lead to blind loyalty (I have to admit though that the issue here was somewhat different - here it was more about gameplay aspects than bugs).
I think what is especially disappointing about Dungeon Lords is that the game stays far behind its own potential. Plus, there was a demo and the reactions to that were not really good. Gamers stated in differnt forums that they don't like the demo and expressed their concerns. Heuristic Parc reacted and promised that the game had "[...] made a considerable progress since the released demo. [...]." Today we know that was a lie. The game had made absolute no progress since the released demo. Call me naive but somehow I think you should keep promises.
The next thing that is also very disappointing in connection with DL is the fact that Heuristic Park obviously missed the chance to learn from pervious mistakes. I liked Wizards & Warriors (ya, I admit it - I am one of the 3 guys who bought the game) but to be honest it wasn't a finished and polished product when it hit the market (though it didn't have nearly as many bugs as DL has). The product was widely criticised for its unpolished look and the lacking customer support (there was just one official beta patch which only fixed a few things). Still the game was playable and I personally enjoyed it but the reviews were not all that exciting. You would think Heuristik Park would have learned from that experience but no: They did it again.
I agree with you that there certainly are other games which get ratings that don't reflect their "true" state of development. But that is another problem and is of absolute no importance for this particular thread because here we are talking about DL and not another game. I mean, what am I supposed to do when I buy a game and it sucks? Shall I say: "Oh well, I just wasted a lot of money but last moth I bought KOTOR2 and it also sucked and I also spent a lot of money." That doesn't make it any better - it makes it even worse (I just took KOTOR2 as an example, I never played the game and therefore cannot judge it).
I believe that everyone bought the game with the intention to have fun. Look at the official Dreamcatcher boards do you really believe all these people just bought the game to be able to complain on these boards about it? They are disappointed and I don't think you can blame them for that.
PS: On a sidenote - yep, you are right of course when it comes to Fallout 2 and storyline. It consisted more of several small stories and not one large linear storyline. I really liked that in Fallout 2 but I would never say that games with a big linear storyline cannot be great games. So this clearly isn't one of the reasons why I dislike DL. |
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Fri May 13, 2005 11:21 am |
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A Sane Guest
Guest
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For the record: I'm not the 'guest' who seems to work at Heuristic Park and needs a raise for his next darkroom meeting...
I haven't played this game. I was going to buy it but most reviews made me see that investing 39 euros in this game is not the most bright thing to do. A half-finished game with no RPG depth and the technology of the '80's which still crashes??? My god, I've seen better NWN modules on the bottom of the ratings list! And those are free...
Shows again that only pro's should enter the ring... |
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Sat May 14, 2005 8:00 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by A Sane Guest
For the record: I'm not the 'guest' who seems to work at Heuristic Park and needs a raise for his next darkroom meeting...
I haven't played this game. I was going to buy it but most reviews made me see that investing 39 euros in this game is not the most bright thing to do. A half-finished game with no RPG depth and the technology of the '80's which still crashes??? My god, I've seen better NWN modules on the bottom of the ratings list! And those are free...
Shows again that only pro's should enter the ring...
For the record, I am thw "guest" that seems to work for HP and needs a raise for my next darkroom meeting (why would I meet in the darkroom, are we developing pictures?)
"I haven't played this game."
Then your opinion means nothing
"I was going to buy it but most reviews made me see that investing 39 euros in this game is not the most bright thing to do."
I always love to see some autonomy and free spirit shown by my fellow man. it proves that man is not doomed to being chump ass bandwagon jumpers, following the crowd like lemmings. Keep up the good work fella, self-formed opinions are overated, we should all follow unquestioningly, that way everything will stagnate and die.
"A half-finished game with no RPG depth and the technology of the '80's which still crashes???"
Whats half finsihed with it? Did a planet with important story plot finishers get cut? Is it missing the beggining, middle, or end? Oh yeah, you wouldn't know. And what the hell do you know about rpg depth? Where is your back-up? Oh, you throw nonsense around and expect people to just take your word for it? You probably wouldn't know rpg depth if your boyfriend strapped it on and gave you a mushroom stamp with it.
Tell me what rpg depth is and what games have it. Then say why DL doesn't. That is if a lemming like you can formulate your own opinion. But you can't because your a freshmen, a kool-aid drinker, and a pedaphile. Or am I making overly broad statements I know nothing about with no back-up to support it?
What 80's technology does it employ? Oh, again you prove you're a freshman and not a bright one at that. S**t or get off the pot. Don't spray out jibberish and not back it up with anything. I say you don't know crap about the 80's because you were still sucking on your mother's balls. Because if you were old enough to play games in the 80's you have to be old enough to have heard of something called facts, something you don't seem to know much about. You state poorly formed opinions as fact, and its not even your own poorly formed opinion.
"My god, I've seen better NWN modules on the bottom of the ratings list! And those are free..."
Yeah, NWN is know for its rpg depth. And since you admit to not owning or playing DL and steeling your opinions like a lemming bandwagonder from others, wtf are you talking about? Buts its good to know you're consistent, since you show no autonomy in picking nwn models and judge them by what your betters think. And thats my free opinion.
"Shows again that only pro's should enter the ring..."
Well besides the fact you're a freshmen and you entered it, that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. If only pro's entered the ring the ring would be empty, since there are criteria that involves the ring needed to be aquired to become a pro. But what makes a pro? A hit like Wiz 7? Well i guess that rules DWB out, smarty pants. Oh yeah, you were still sucking on your mothers balls when that came out and you like to spray your nonsense around without those fact things backing it up. |
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Sat May 14, 2005 9:34 pm |
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