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Jung
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 411
Location: Texas |
I've seen all three LotR movies, and I have a question: Why doesn't Gandalf use much magic? The only thing I recall him using at all in battle is a kind of "blind" spell. Why not hurl a fireball or something?
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:44 am |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
Ahh... there are so many levels to this post that could be explored.
Practically, Gandalf does not abuse his powers, because he saw the mess that it got Saruman into - and there was a reason he was a grey wizard first - the lore suggests that he was without doubt the wisest of the order, but not the most powerful. One of the few times he uses his powers, though, is against Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli and with his magic he effectively negates the offensive power of the three best and most crunkin' heroes in Middle Earth, which has got to count for something! 
From the point of view of Tolkien's religion, there was no greater "good" non-occultist power than inspiring those around you with extreme fervour while disheartening your opponents, who, in the case of orcs, were bound to service by evil and thusly not truly loyal. It is like the general who, although he does not fight, is worth far more than an ordinary grunt because he leads and boosts morale of the troops.
And of course, why would Gandalf need to use overt displays of magic? His sword, Gamaldring, traces its roots back to the Silmarillion (though it is never mentioned how the three trolls got their hands on it!), and he holds the Elven Ring of Fire. There is a well illustrated sub-scene in the 3rd movie. Gandalf barley scratches one of the bigger trolls with his sword, yet it goes down. The only reason that I can see for such happening was that his weapons and person total to being so "good" that coming into contact with anything evil results in the evil thing's immediate internatl combustion! Or something like that.
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:35 am |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
I think Talkien is trying to create different person than "normal battle-mage" (we know such normal battle-mages from many books and games).
As Sauron said, Gandalfs biggest strenght is "to be whole good". If I am correct, you can clearly see it when he is thinking about Glum (I do not know if this is movies, I never saw them).
If you really want answers try good Talkiens biography. I think (just my idea) Gandalf is his most important person. So there is a lot from authors ideals in him. |
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:39 am |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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Gandalf isn't really a wizard anyway. He's a sort of spirit, with a mission from someone else.
He won't use magic partially because he's a sort of guidance, to help man get straight so they can inherit the world.
So he lets them do most of the fighting and such themselves, let them achieve their victories themselves. Otherwise they might just rely on him, which they already kind of do.
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Like some bold seer in a trance;
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:49 am |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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Gandalf's a Maiar, a lesser Ainur. He serves the Valar Melian, if I recall correctly. I also believe Gandalf had "orders" of some kind which forbade him to use his powers in significant ways.
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"Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:06 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Something like that he is not allowed to test his powers against Sauron himself.
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:41 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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In his human form (called Istari), Gandalf's power is limited to those found in the mortal world. As a spirit (Maiar), he's much more powerful.
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"Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:50 pm |
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Jung
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 411
Location: Texas |
Well, I haven't read the books yet, so I don't know the backstory behind the characters. I assumed during the movie that they didn't make him too powerful so that he wouln't be a deus ex machina for any dramatic situations.
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"You two are a regular ol' Three Musketeers." |
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:54 pm |
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Neo_Genesis
The Assassin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 3050
Location: The Netherlands |
a few times he used his magic in the movies:
- (FotR) beginning, when bilbo won't give him the ring, he uses his mind to let bilbo think he get's bigger, and his voice louder.
- (FotR) in the fight againt Saruman.
- (FotR) in Moria, he makes a shiled to protect him from the Balrog.
- (TTT) when he first meet Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli. he stoops the arrow and the axe. and heats up Aragorn's sword.
- (TTT) he uses his magic to free Theoden from Saruman.
- (TTT) the blinding spell when he attacks the Uruk-hai.
correct me if i made a mistake or missed something.
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Always wondering how it would be... |
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:11 pm |
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Jung
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 411
Location: Texas |
quote:
Originally posted by Neo_Genesis
a few times he used his magic in the movies:...
Yes. The several times when they are battling a million orcs, I would have thought he could roast a few of them, and let the fighters smash them with swords.
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"You two are a regular ol' Three Musketeers."
Last edited by Jung on Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:16 pm |
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Neo_Genesis
The Assassin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 3050
Location: The Netherlands |
i know... if he trew a huge fireball in a group of orcs... he could toast about 500 of them in one time. they would win easily then.
i can't remember him using magic in RotK..
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Always wondering how it would be... |
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:21 pm |
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balconygolf_ThE_bRiDe
Alien Dwarf
Joined: 26 Dec 2003
Posts: 705
Location: Greece/Athens or *BrOtHeRhOoD* |
The 3movies "Lord of the Rings" are misleading the audience.Who ever read the books of Talkien knows.
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:24 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by sauron38
... And of course, why would Gandalf need to use overt displays of magic? His sword, Gamaldring, traces its roots back to the Silmarillion (though it is never mentioned how the three trolls got their hands on it!), and he holds the Elven Ring of Fire. ...
Ah, Sauron, as usual I want to post a lot in response to what you wrote, but I am pressed for time.
In the Hobbit Gandalf supposes that the trolls must've looted it from some stash left over from the razing of Gondolin.
As to overt magic, he uses it against the wolves in the hobbit, and again uses fire against the wargs in the Fellowship (I believe they were on the way to Moria at the time). Again, at the gates of Minas Tirith he stands off the Lord of the Nazgul. But you are right, mostly his magic is of the less flashy sort. Freezing the three heroes is a good example of non flashy magic, or breaking Sarumans staff, or curing Theoden. Another less mentioned side of his magic is his relations with the eagles and Shadowfax.
goshuto raises a good point ... how much of Gandalf's 'flashy' magic is a function of Narya (his ring)? (Hey, does knowing the name of Narya earn me bonus Nerd points?)
Gotta split now, the work is piling up ...
PS - To those of you who read some of this and are confused, I liked the movies, but the books will always be the source of my posts.
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:34 pm |
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Neo_Genesis
The Assassin
Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 3050
Location: The Netherlands |
i have read the first two books nbow (well, i'm at the last 30 pages of TTT)... and i saw allt he movies.
but the relationship with between the eagles and gandalf isn't written in any book.
i happended long ago. the lord of the eagles, Gwaihir, was poisened by an orc-arrow. Gandalf was the one who cured him then. Gwaihir was in a debt with gandalf, and this time, he helped gandalf.
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Always wondering how it would be... |
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:51 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
The eagles figure in at a number of points:
1. They help the dwarves escape the goblins in the hobbit
2. They appear at the battle of 5 armies
3. They rescue Gandalf from Orthanc
4. They rescue Gandalf after his battle w/ the Barlog
5. They appear at the black gates.
The only common thread is Gandalfs presence. Did he some how summon them?
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:39 pm |
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