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JDR13
Magister of the Light
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 376
Location: Michigan, United States |
| My God! What have they done with DX2?!? |
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This demo is garbage! It looks and plays just like a console game.
How could they spend all these years working on a sequel to such a geat game and come up with this piece of shit? It is obvious the game was designed for X-Box and then just given a straight port. It should have been the other way around. Such a shame. |
Sun Nov 23, 2003 5:23 am |
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pauk
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 38
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| Re: My God! What have they done with DX2?!? |
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Many games are suffering of "console disease", DX2 is one of them.
DX1 was originally planned for pc's, and it was a great game. |
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Sun Nov 23, 2003 12:25 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
My original thoughts are in another thread. After reading some hints to improve the interface I sat down and gave it another go.
I don't like the interface but I can get past that...so, leaving that aside I'm still disappointed. I don't like the graphics style that looks sort of cartoony (look at the blood!), I don't like the simplifed Biomods and ammo, the huge text or the AI.
If the story is good, I might enjoy it as a shooter, but it's unlikely to be the "almost-RPG" I thought it was.
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Sun Nov 23, 2003 9:14 pm |
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Ariel
Harmonious Angel
Joined: 21 Jul 2001
Posts: 432
Location: Germany |
Such a shame. Hopefully the demo is just a bad, early port...? And there I read in an interview that both versions would be developed simultaneously and the PC port (they didn't call it port, but I always did) would get a different interface.
I sincerely hope they won't make any money with this game and come back to PC gaming. If they do get more cash from the console version than they got for the prequel on the PC, I fear it's one more promising developer lost to the careless masses.
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“Through the sounds of falling rain, through the clouds of bitter times
I see the pure grace of your smile, in dreams of the warmth in your eyes” - Tim North |
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Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:54 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
The only lesson Eidos will learn is not to release demos for multiplatform games.
The console market is easily 3x as big as the PC market. There is no chance the console version will earn less money the PC port.
One more nail in the PC hardcore gamer´s coffin.
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Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:26 am |
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pauk
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 38
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Perhaps DX2 isn't a bad game after all. New interview (announced on rpgdot front page) clarifies some things:
http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/441/441905p1.html
Skills and augmentations are combined in a new, improved biomod system.
DX2 also has lots of freedom (more than dx1):
"Steve Powers: The world is full of people who want you on their side. At the outset of the game, almost everyone is a potential ally. How many will stand by you is entirely up to the player and how he interacts with them, but you will not be able to please all of the people all of the time. Most NPCs will also be forgiving if you piss them off once or twice, but eventually, you must choose who you want to call friend and who you want to live without." |
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Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:50 am |
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Ariel
Harmonious Angel
Joined: 21 Jul 2001
Posts: 432
Location: Germany |
quote:
How many will stand by you is entirely up to the player and how he interacts with them, but you will not be able to please all of the people all of the time. Most NPCs will also be forgiving if you piss them off once or twice, but eventually, you must choose who you want to call friend and who you want to live without."
Heh. For a moment I thought he was talking about the customers, not the NPCs.
Gorath: Yea, it's sad... Well, I'm going to wait for reviews of the final game and if the obvious flaws of the PC demo haven't been resolved by then, or with a patch eventually, I think I'll pass.
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“Through the sounds of falling rain, through the clouds of bitter times
I see the pure grace of your smile, in dreams of the warmth in your eyes” - Tim North |
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Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:30 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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Hehe, for those who remember the DX1 intro, there's a brilliant post at the Ion Storm forums.
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"Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
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Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:04 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
I agree about the console disease. But my impression with the demo was a big dissappointment. As a little fan of Deux Ex 1 I ofcourse compared it to that, and I must say that too many nice features from Deux Ex 1 are gone in the number 2, and not replaced with something interesting new things. Well the demo may not give a correct impression of the final game, but I will defently wait for more reviews. 
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Fri Nov 28, 2003 10:54 am |
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Alistair
Guards Lieutenant
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 151
Location: Cambridge, England |
I must say I quite enjoyed the demo. Apart from the interface, where I never knew which of LMB/RMB/Tab/F/Enter I needed to press, I generally thought it was pretty good.
I'll probably buy it just for the spider bots  |
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Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:23 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Judging from your posts, I think the Gamespot review hit this right on the head.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/deusexinvisiblewar/review.html
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OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:31 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
What I want to know, is how do they justify DX2 being a role playing game when they even took the measly skills out of it? And no, I'm sorry, having a choice between three types of mods to wear on your body doesn't cut it to be an RPG! By that definition, Counter-Strike is an RPG.
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Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:54 am |
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piln
High Emperor
Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 906
Location: Leeds, UK |
I quite enjoyed the demo, overall. It's very short though.
The console-style controls for inventory are terrible, and unforgivable since they promised a suitable interface for PC, and they made some plain lazy mistakes (you know how the HUD looks better if you change the value in the ini file from 61 to 68? There's actually a comment in the file that 68 is the proper setting for PC, but they left it on the Xbox default anyway). Stuff like that shows some disrespect for the PC audience, which I find disappointing (especially since Spector is my favourite designer).
But I think they've made some good decisions. I don't mind the unified ammo; I have never in any game enjoyed ammo management, and Spector's arguments on this matter make perfect sense to me. And I didn't like the inventory page in DX1, I prefer the new simpler system (but I don't think there are enough slots now  ). In principle, I don't have a problem with combining the skills and biomods (although there's not enough in the demo to show how well they've implemented this change). And the level sizes and appearance are, I believe, entirely inconsequential - small levels work fine for this gameplay (shame about the load times though) and let's face it, DX1 looked a bit ropey when it came out, didn't it? I find it worrying when RPGers are complaining about looks - I didn't think we were so shallow. On the whole, yes there are quite a few minor niggles, but I think a lot of people are getting hung up on superficial details - things that don't really have any bearing on the game experience.
For me, what made the first game great was the massive amount of freedom it gave players to find their own solutions, and play how they liked. IMO, that is closer to the heart of what an RPG really is than stats and game mechanics - it's real role-playing, which doesn't actually occur that often in CRPGs. As far as I have seen from the demo, this is still the essence of DX2, and it seems to be slightly improved by the new physics & lighting (the physics is exeggerated, but it works and can be used to good effect). Each to their own - if your favourite things about DX1 were the inventory system and skills, then yeah you'll be disappointed - but if so, I can't help thinking you're missing the point of the game.
I also think that the fact that it doesn't meet RPG conventions is of no consequence. I don't care if it's not what I expected; I don't care if it disregards every tradition in the book. I only care if it's a good game, I don't give two hoots what type of game it is. If I did, i would be limiting myself unnecessarily. (incidentally, I still don't know if it is a good game or not - I need to wait for the full version)
The only thing that really worries me here is that, all the way through development, Spector and Smith kept asserting their belief that console games do not have to be dumbed-down (even though they often are), which is something I totally agree with, and that they would not do so with DX2. But, in some ways, I think they have... why can we see cameras' view arcs? We can see it's a camera, we know what it does, we can see which way it's facing - we don't need the MGS touch. Why does the SMG have a flashbang for secondary fire, and smoke grenades for the shotguns? Shouldn't these be mods that the player can pick? This simplification goes against the player-freedom ethic (maybe this is different in the full game; I hope so). Why does that vampiric healing biomod talk in a spooky voice? And IIRC, the regeneration biomod goes in the eye. I just can't figure that out. I hope my memory is wrong, but if not it seems they've compromised logic just to make all the mods fit in the new 3-mods-per-body-part layout.
Again, these are superficial things, but IMO these decisions partly strip away the intelligent air of the game, making it less believable and slightly more patronising toward the player. That's something I see in the vast majority of games today, but I've never seen these guys do it before. |
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Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:48 pm |
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The wizard
Head Merchant
Joined: 20 Jan 2004
Posts: 54
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Ariel you quote is very heart felt even though you copied it but in your words it makes it sound a hell of a lot better. But Is I would say and as well as dirt Harry "Go ahead Make My Day".  |
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Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:47 pm |
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