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Moriendor
Black Ring Leader
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 1306
Location: Germany |
| Thief 3: Petition against XBox Port |
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There is a <a href="http://www.petitiononline.com/oltheif3/petition.html" target="_blank">petition</a> from 'Thief' fans going on, asking Ion Storm to not make 'Thief III' for PC a direct port from the XBox as they did with 'Deus Ex: Invisible War'. |
Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:34 pm |
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Vid
Guest
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its whine-time again.
no really, when did this all happen?
there has to be a specific timeframe when some (all?) gamers went crazy and started to whine about every single thing in a game which does not meet their taste.
i think today with this flood of what seems to be a single wave of frequent gameforum spammers, which crawls from one game forum to the next, leaving it back dead and gnawed, i as a game producer would really think twice whether or not to open up a forum for my game.
Ok, you cant stop the whiners to open a forum for your game elsewhere, but at least you won´t support them and havn´t to read their stupid calls for justice.
In the early time of gaming, when there was no internet (what? are you crazy?!) there where no game forums, but nonetheless very great games, which the gameproducers thought out all by themselfs.
I mean, its always the same:
1. a new game is introduced.
2. forum is opened.
3 gone crazy gamers which think this is their game (both, in terms of ownership as well as that it will definately be their taste) flood the forum.
4. just 1 month till gold status. the crowd is drooling.
5. games out. first comments on forum: "WTF", "they betrayed us!", "lets start a petition" (ok the petition thing is just for REAL geeks who cant live with the fact that not everyone shares their taste and that no real good game can exists without their influence on it)
6. time passes on, most of the whiners amusing themself in the forum of the game, start to yell to the producer that they will NEVER EVER buy a game again from them and some more time later, well.. goto 1.
Ok maybe i am exaggerating a bit, but i see a trend and i dont think there will be a positiv outcome for us gamers of this. And maybe this "trend" to consoles some might see right now has something to do with this. |
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Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:59 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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Hehe. Well, I don't blame the Thief fans, after the, um, "trauma," caused by the whole DX2 PC/XBox thing.
Not that that petition is going to change anything, though....
_________________
"Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
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Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:20 am |
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elkston
High Emperor
Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 691
Location: North Carolina, USA |
Vid.
 Great post.
_________________
All shall hear the words of Karras...the words of Karras |
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Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:53 am |
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Sevia
Guest
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It is a legitimate whine. The first Deues Ex is superior in every way to the second. It did not assume what part 2 assumes about gamers:
1) They have short attention spans
2) They do not read manuals
3) They don't care about visuals
4) They don't care about realism
5) They are not willing to micro manage
6) They want instant action, not storyline
6) They don't want to walk around too much (see number 1)
Feel free to add to the list. |
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Sat Dec 20, 2003 2:39 am |
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elkston
High Emperor
Joined: 21 Sep 2002
Posts: 691
Location: North Carolina, USA |
Sevia,
Yes. Those are valid gripes about Deus Ex 2. Which although I did enjoy, will admit that it was NOT as great as the first game.
But the mature and responsible thing to do is to voice your concern in a respectful, concise way on a public forum. Or even better, write a snail-mail letter to the development house letting them know of your criticisms.
After that -- it is out of your control. If they want to continue making "dumbed down" games that do not appeal to you, then vote with your dollars.
Eventually, someone else (maybe even YOU) will figure out that there is STILL a market for more detailed, complex games and develop the next masterpeice.
I mean really, ION Storm is going to take one glance at the petition, shrug it off, and continue on with their own plans. Especially since this one proposes such a drastic action.
Don't get me wrong. I am on your side. I don't want Theif 3 to suffer some of the same negative consequences that Dues Ex 2 did. But I am also realistic about how much influence I can really have on the course of its development.
EDIT: I want to clarify that I am not directing these comments specifically at you. But instead at a generic "whiner"/"lets start an online petition" type gamer.
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All shall hear the words of Karras...the words of Karras |
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Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:57 am |
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Bill
Guest
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| Liberal Nazi Commie Bush-ists trying to take away our RIGHTS |
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 That's it! I'm going to go start a petition to get "people" (if THEY can even be called that!) like elkston and vid BANNED from RPGDOT! Who's with me?????    |
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Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:11 am |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
I remember back in the pre-internet days when I had no ideas what games were even being developed. When I had enough extra money to get a game I would go to the mall and read the back of boxes until I saw one that I would like.
I skipped over games like Bard's Tale because it kind of looked girly with big girly letters (and everyone says that is a great game). But I got some great games like Darklands and Realms of Arkania. And I never would of known of a review, or if a game was crap, or any of that because I never bought magazines or had any friends at all that liked the dorky games I did.
I liked it better then because of nothing like the whinning and crying. But I also love downloading free demos. Godbless the internet and free demos. I will put up with whinning for free demos any day (until I can afford to buy a lot of games).
But I have hated the turn of crpg's going the way of the moron for a while. I might have to switch over to RTS's or strategy games in general if I want a game that wasn't made for retards. I miss the big, thick, confusing manuals; confusing and complex character and party building; etc., etc
But, you still can't beet free demos, or complain when the demos are free.
And I noticed that any game that requires twitch ability is very hard for me. So the Chrome demo is taking me as long to finish as some RPG's.
They can make thief 3 however they want. I've never played a thief or would ever buy one. But I do hope the demo is long. I should start a petition to lengthen the demo size.
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Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:53 am |
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Guest
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When did people get whiney? Once they got the chance... serious distribution of broadband, I think you'll find, coincides pretty much with the start of the WhineAge.
There will always be a select amount of very vocal people who sound like a barrel of cats going down a hill, but the relatively recent development in the communities taking a direct interest in the making of games should, as a whole, be seen as a very positive thing. Once you filter out the background noise, you suddenly get feedback on a level and at a time in development that has never been there vefore. This is where smart marketing people perk up and USE this information to avoid disasters in the making they're being warned about - like Lionheart, e.g.
Seriously - the devs out there should rather be jumping for joy than rolling their eyes at this kind of response - free market analysis for the hardcore spectrum of gamers...
In the end, of course, it all comes down to what sells - if the majority want half-assed console conversions, then that's what will be made. It might sell, but it'll probably not be anything that stands out - DeusEx 2 set any milestones like the first one? In the end, this will probably kill off a lot of software houses, when they simply run out of ideas. Think of the increadible number of unremarkable 1st person shooters that have come out recently - name more than one of the developers, and I'll be impressed. Then think of names like Id, Valve, Looking Glass, Activision/Infinity Ward for the newer CoD. I'm not saying all devs need to be up to that kind of standard, but keep churning out mainstream, unremarkable consoleesque (there's a weird word) games, and you're on the fast track to oblivion... |
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Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:11 am |
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OctarineDragon
Head Merchant
Joined: 28 Nov 2003
Posts: 57
Location: The Void |
I think I can totally agree with the above anonymous poster. On the 'whiney' vs. 'vote w/ your $$$' issue, I must say I'm glad to live in a place where I have further options beside decision whether to buy or not in order to influence. Freedom of speech is one way, and while I'm aware that the free market is not democratic at all, it is embedded into a democratic society and culture which will more likely than not listen to the voices of the disgruntled if they can make themselves heard. If they whine, so what? If they come up with constructive criticism, all the better. In a society more and more shaped by semi-democratic media such as the internet, any company is well advised not to play deaf in order to succeed in the long term. |
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Sat Dec 20, 2003 10:55 am |
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Jung
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 411
Location: Texas |
It's only whining if you do it after it's too late for anyone to change it.
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"You two are a regular ol' Three Musketeers." |
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Sat Dec 20, 2003 3:53 pm |
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bora
Counselor of the King
Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Posts: 372
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I signed the petition. And I don`t care if it will help to stop crap like Deus Ex: Invisible War from coming (btw. DE:IW is not deadly bad as seperate title but as for Deus Ex sequel it`s HUGE CRAP). Personally I think that Vid (with all due respect) takes results for reasons. This whine-time has started because great games started to receive worthless sequels and great projects are becoming simplified and mindless s**t at the moment of release. First I felt dissapointed was sequel to Archimedean Dynasty. Then UFO: Aftermatch, Pirates of the Carribean Sea, Temple of Elemental Evil (I mean actions from Atari to lower the age limit), Deus Ex, my dearest Fallout... And it seams to be only the beginning. Few years ago console titles were very rare converted to PC and I can remember only few games from PC converted. But I was waiting for Final Fantasy VII like no other game in first half of 1997 and bought myself VooDoo2 with 12 Mb RAM to play it. And by Gods it was fantastic. Different and great. Console players could taste some more complicated stuff designed for PC and for them it was widening their horizons too. And now time starts when we will all have same low level s**t every gaming platform. I know that more people buys console games, I know it`s bigger market and better money and I know that this cannot be stopped by me and even all the goodwill gamers signing petitions and writing posts. But this petitions, great fanbase for games like Fallout, may show some smaller producers that there is still market for better - ambitious products. Graphic doesn`t have to be of quality too high for Radeon 9800XT - it`s story and playability that matters. And since these smaller producers will mostly be unable to compete with big console-oriented developers, they may consider abandoned market for PC Games (meaning more complex and demanding games mostly 18+) as tempting. Look at Devil`s Whiskey as an example or Silver Style and their Fall. And this is my hope. That`s why I`m signing petitions and am one of "whine-time avatars". |
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Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:59 pm |
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mkreku
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 112
Location: Uppsala, Sweden |
I loved Thief (The Gold edition). I loved Thief 2 even more. And I sure as hell isn't going to sit back and just watch Ion Storm destroy yet another one of my favourite series. So what can I do, living in Sweden and all? Well, I am fully aware that a petition probably does absolutely nothing. I am also aware of the fact that there's even less hope of getting the game I want if I do nothing.
With a little luck Ion Storm actually listens to us "whiners" and doesn't make the same mistakes as they did with Deux Ex: Invisible Crap. I'm proud of being called a whiner if maybe I can be part of making the games I love just a little bit better.
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Swedes visit NordicGamers for the latest game reviews in swedish! |
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Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:26 pm |
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Guest
Guest
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One of the problems is there are too many people involved in the gaming industry right now that don't give a hooey about games. They're in it for the money. What happened to the Ultima and Might and Magic RPG series is unforgivable. The industry just got too big. Back in the 8bit computer days, it was 4 or 5 guys who LOVED computer programming and computer games working on them. They CARED about what they were doing and could communicate easily with each other. Now dev teams are so huge, it's actually suprising to me that we even get a dozen or so REALLY good games a year. Frankly, I've been burned by the gaming industry more than I care to admit, especially over the last 5 or 10 years, by buying lousy games, so I actually think people have a right to complain if they spend hard earned money on junk. What gets on my nerves is when people start complaining about a game before it's even released, now that's bad, IMO. |
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Sat Dec 20, 2003 6:51 pm |
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Guest
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The only 'whining' I see here is from the people complaining about people whining. How ironic. This petition is by dedicated fans of a game who are being active and exercising a basic democratic right. Those wasting their time on these forums calling this 'whining' should get a life. |
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Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:23 am |
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