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p3t0$
Village Dweller
Joined: 14 Dec 2003
Posts: 6
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Hi, i'd like to ask some questions about Deus Ex.
Anyone played Deus Ex 2 recently?
I'd like to know some opinions from the gamers (especially the DX-fanatics) about graphics, control system, storyline, playability, improvements from the 1st episode... that sort of stuff. 
Everyone who has finished DX1 surely knows there are 3 different endings... how's it possible to make a sequel, especially for the ones who have chosen the "Dark Age" ending (my favourite one  )?
Besides, i'm re-playing the 1st Deus Ex, just to refresh my memory and get the best experience with DX2.
I played it a lot of time ago and i don't remember too clearly the story (well, just the main things), i only remember that i played "stealthy", but i messed up with some augmentations and skills (the Spy Drone and Cloak augs were so disappointing).
This time i'd like to have a better character to play with, so i'm asking some tips to the experienced DX players about the PC development, because i'm not sure if everything's ok or i'm making some mistakes.
This is a quick overview of what my character will be (please, feel free to let me know what are your opinions/tips/criticism about it):
[SKILLS]
Computer: Trained (or Advanced)
Electronics: Trained (or Advanced)
Environmental Training: Trained
Lockpicking: Advanced
Medicine: Untrained
Swimming: Advanced
Weapons-Demolition: Untrained
Weapons-Heavy: Untrained (or Trained)
Weapons-Low Tech: Master
Weapons-Pistol: Untrained
Weapons-Rifle: Master
[AUGMENTATIONS]
Cranial: Aggressive Defence System (Lvl 2)
Eyes: Vision Enhancement (Lvl 3)
Arms: Combat Strength (Lvl 4)
Subdermal: Radar Transparency (Lvl 4), Ballistic Protection (Lvl 3)
Torso: Regeneration (Lvl 4), Environmental Resistence (Lvl 3), Synthetic Heart
Legs: Run Silent (Lvl 4)
I usually try to remain undetected and the best way to do that is using a silenced sniper rifle (AIM FOR THE HEAD! ), but i enjoy using melee weapons too, because they don't need ammo (only the shock-prod) and it's so exciting to sneak behind enemies and kill (or shock) them with a single hit without making noise (it reminds me a lot Thief... mmmh, another Warren Spector's game).
The Heavy Weapons skill is very useful against Bots, Commandos and to open doors/chests, but i upgrade it only after the other fighting skills (Rifle and Low-Tech) are maxed out; instead, another option could be using LAMs or EMP grenades (without upgrading the skill) and even that would be fine.
The Pistol skill is useful at the beginning but not so great after all: pistols are not powerful, don't have a long range and are quite inaccurate (even if you use weapon mods on them); Demolition is another skill to forget, like Medicine (in simple words, i don't plan to spend a single point in all these 3 skills).
I like Computer a lot: i upgrade it to Trained straigth away in order to have the hacking ability but i think it's not necessary to spend more points in it.
Lockpicking it's another great skill: like computer i bring it to Trained from the beginning and when i have the opportunity (or i'm running out of lockpicks) i upgrade it to Advanced.
Electronics is quite useful, but not as Lockpicking, because you can retrieve a lot of codes from datacubes or people and with the Radar Transparency Aug no turret or camera can stop you (you can even use the sniper rifle from afar to shoot cameras).
Swimming it's good to find secret passages/hidden equipment or to have alternative routes (useful when you want to play stealthy) and i bring it at Trained/Advanced level quite soon.
Environmental Training is a cheap skill but i spend points to upgrade it only later in the game.
Now let's talk about augs.
The most useful augs are surely Regeneration and Synthetic Heart, no matter the way you like to play (stealth or brute force).
Run Silent is great for stealth/ninja players like me and even better if used in conjunction with Combat Strenght.
Radar Transparency is another good augmentation, especially at the end of the game.
Environmental Resistance is quite good, but not essential (i'm thinking to downgrade it to lvl 2 in order to upgrade Aggressive Defence System or Vision Enhancement); Ballistic Protection is useful but at lvl 4 absorbs only 65% damage and is more useful for brute force tactics, so i will stick with it at lvl 3.
Vision Enhancement really helps when you want to know how much enemies you will face before you enter in a room, but having it at level 3 is enough because you have nightvision, infravision and close range sonar resonance imaging (at lvl 4 you have long range sonar resonance imaging but that's not worth an upgrade, because you can use Synthetic Heart instead).
Aggressive Defence System is wonderful against rocket or plasma-gun attacks: having it at lvl 2 is cheap and safe at the same time.
I even planned a brute force character:
[SKILLS]
Computer: Trained
Electronics: Trained
Environmental Training: Trained
Lockpicking: Trained
Medicine: Untrained
Swimming: Advanced
Weapons-Demolition: Untrained
Weapons-Heavy: Master
Weapons-Low Tech: Trained
Weapons-Pistol: Untrained (or Trained)
Weapons-Rifle: Master
[AUGMENTATIONS]
Cranial: Aggressive Defence System (Lvl 2)
Eyes: Targeting (Lvl 4)
Arms: Combat Strenght (Lvl 1)
Subdermal: Radar Transparency (Lvl 4), Ballistic Protection (Lvl 4)
Torso: Regeneration (Lvl 4), Environmental Resistence (Lvl 4), Synthetic Heart
Legs: Speed Enhancement (Lvl 4)
Ok, that's all: my e-mail is p3t0s@yahoo.it, if you want you can send me your opinions and tips.
Thanks to everyone. |
Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:40 pm |
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bora
Counselor of the King
Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Posts: 372
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I haven`t played Deus Ex:IW as it hasn`t been published in Poland yet . My friends from USA are not especially happy about it what shouldn`t come as surprise since Eidos announced US release should be considered as beta. European version was postponed till March.
From what I`ve heard and read lat thing to do is play Deus Ex1 before playing IW. Game is simplified beyond the point where it can still be considered RPG. It`s much much shorter and almost all Deus magic is gone. Unique creation turned into one more simple console shooter. But if You can forget it is supposed to be sequel for Deus Ex IW is not so VERY bad.
Maybe somebody that played could give You better inside or different opinion as my friends expectations might`ve been simply too high. |
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Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:37 pm |
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Daedalus
High Emperor
Joined: 04 Jan 2002
Posts: 2516
Location: Estonia |
Well i finished both parts allready and indeed like u sayd USA friends didnt like it well its kinda different than the first part. DeusEx2 has much abilitys lost for example u dont get anymore skill points for finding things or making subquests or even the primary goals.
You can still mod pistols rifels and all other weapons but this time u cant mod into one weapon much mods only 2 mods each weapon no more.Tho there are more different weapon mods this time .
The health system has changed in part 2 there is no more Legs , torso , head , hands damage this time everything is in one. So u will not loose a leg like in 1 part or a hand .
You can still learn the abilitys like hacking computers , take over bots , silent running and much more and if u explore every place u can almost check out every ability cos i had in the end over 15 biomods what i didnt need to use .
DeusEx2 uses a different graphical engine so it looks pretty nice but a little bit much animated.
SPOILER!!!
You are no more J.C Denton but another testsubject from Majastic 12 Facility if u remember correctly from the 1 part there were 6 ppl or more cant remember correctly in Majastic 12 facility in tubes:)
Imo DeusEx1 was much better than DeusEx2 but if u liked DeusEx1 u sure need to check out the second part also to see what happened after the collapse and all the rest |
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Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:13 pm |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
Forget all those skills. In DX2 you only can customize/level-up you character through augmentations (some biomods have been dropped - Synthetic Heart, Ballistic Protection, Radar Transparency, etc).
The biomods that available for augmentation and more necessary for stealth gameplay
1) Cloaking/invisibility - any organic beings can't see you.
2) Thermal masking - robot/turret/camera can't detect you.
3) Move silent - dampen the noise you make when sneaking.
Other biomods that supporting stealth gameplay.
4) vision Enhancement - See through walls & all machine/human/usefull items behind them.
5) Neural Interface - Hacking terminals, turret, camera & ATM for $$$.
6) Bot Domination - Thermal masking yourself and run up to a robot, touch it, run back to hiding, & in few seconds you'll take control over that bot.
Action gameplay biomods:
1) Biotox Attack Drone - non-lethal & ranged attack drone. Effecting organic enemies only.
2) Speed Enhancement - Run faster, jump higher, and reduce damage from falling.
3) Aggressive Defence Drone - Grenade & rocket explodes before reaching you.
4) Combat Strength - can pick heavy object, higher damage in melee attack.
5) Regeneration - Regeneration health.
6) Electrostatic Discharge - adds EMP damage to melee attack.
7) Health Leech drone - Leeching health from dead organic enemies.
*Probably missed 1-2 mods, can't remember... You can only select 5/6 biomods and upgrade them. E.g if you select cloaking, then you have to replace Bot Domination/something else because they are in same group.
Beside biomods (all have 3 level of upgrades), weapons modifications still there such as weapon refire rate, range, glass destabilizer, silencer, EMP converter, increased damage, scope, & 2-3 others.
Don't worry about selecting a wrong biomods or weapons modifications and their combinations in DXIW, since nothing will noticeably screw up you character. In fact, the game is quite easy even in most difficult setting. And there are more than enough biomods available in case you change you mind later in game (i can accumulate as many as 14 unused biomods at the end of the game).
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Tue Dec 23, 2003 1:08 pm |
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p3t0$
Village Dweller
Joined: 14 Dec 2003
Posts: 6
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thanks to all, guys.
i didn't knew it was so bad compared to dx... 
i hope this won't happen to Thief 3... brrrrr!!!   
well, i'd like to have some tips about the DX1 playing character development, too.
PLEASE!!!  |
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Wed Dec 24, 2003 4:31 pm |
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bora
Counselor of the King
Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Posts: 372
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In my country we say that hope is mother of all fools. So I must be fool from the day I was born. This time hoping she will take real good care of all Thief fans and there will be no great surprise. Last time I`ve heard Ion Storm was looking for beta testers with stealth games and TPP experience - so sad to say there is high probability another unique creation will be sacrificed on the altar for One And Only God - WEALTH. |
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Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:11 pm |
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p3t0$
Village Dweller
Joined: 14 Dec 2003
Posts: 6
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quote:
Originally posted by bora
In my country we say that hope is mother of all fools. So I must be fool from the day I was born. This time hoping she will take real good care of all Thief fans and there will be no great surprise. Last time I`ve heard Ion Storm was looking for beta testers with stealth games and TPP experience - so sad to say there is high probability another unique creation will be sacrificed on the altar for One And Only God - WEALTH.
i hope this won't happen, because this will definitely ruin Ion Storm's reputation...
but i must admit i'm quite sure that thief 3 will be another hole in the water.
WTF is happening at Ion Storm?
Is Warren Spector trying to compete with John Carmack?   |
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Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:54 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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quote:
Originally posted by p3t0$
Is Warren Spector trying to compete with John Carmack?
To compete with John Carmack, Spector would have to be a lousy designer and a genius at engine writing. Currently Spector is only the former.
_________________
"Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
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Fri Dec 26, 2003 8:32 pm |
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p3t0$
Village Dweller
Joined: 14 Dec 2003
Posts: 6
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quote:
Originally posted by goshuto
quote:
Originally posted by p3t0$
Is Warren Spector trying to compete with John Carmack?
To compete with John Carmack, Spector would have to be a lousy designer and a genius at engine writing. Currently Spector is only the former.
i know that, i was jus kidding.
The next Ion Storm game will be named Doom Ex, a wonderful, ehm, RPG... mmmh, RPG, yeah, that's right, let's call it that way ( ) where you can shoot at erveryone you meet, talk with your weapons and choose your faction between killers and big gunners. This game is better than that lousy game called Deus Ex (booooh! ), where you had to THINK before acting: now, you don't have to worry about that!  
Kidding again! |
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Sun Dec 28, 2003 12:55 pm |
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piln
High Emperor
Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 906
Location: Leeds, UK |
quote:
Originally posted by bora
In my country we say that hope is mother of all fools. So I must be fool from the day I was born. This time hoping she will take real good care of all Thief fans and there will be no great surprise. Last time I`ve heard Ion Storm was looking for beta testers with stealth games and TPP experience - so sad to say there is high probability another unique creation will be sacrificed on the altar for One And Only God - WEALTH.
What's TPP?
I feel you are wrong to imply that the Deus Ex 2 team compromised themselves for commercial gain. Yes, some design decisions have been made so that the game is more streamlined and accessible to a wider audience. If you dislike some of those decisions, does that automatically mean that (a) they are wrong, and (b) they were done for selfish reasons? With the way the industry is at the moment, we're lucky mature games like this are still getting published at all.
quote:
Originally posted by goshuto
To compete with John Carmack, Spector would have to be a lousy designer and a genius at engine writing. Currently Spector is only the former.
lol... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that was a joke. Firstly, I'm sure you know that Harvey Smith was lead designer on Invisible War. Secondly, I'm sure you're aware of the titles that Spector did work on as lead designer or project leader. Thirdly... it's the most ridiculous comment I've ever seen posted on these forums. That's why I'm convinced it must have been a joke. It was, wasn't it? |
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Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:28 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
quote:
Originally posted by piln
What's TPP?
Third Person Perspective. Ion's job advertisment might have revealed that they've changed the perspective for Thief 3.
quote:
I feel you are wrong to imply that the Deus Ex 2 team compromised themselves for commercial gain. Yes, some design decisions have been made so that the game is more streamlined and accessible to a wider audience. If you dislike some of those decisions, does that automatically mean that (a) they are wrong,...
Obviously there's no absolute here...but in my opinion, yes. Deus Ex had genuine depth in what would otherwise have been a nice shooter with a good story. Simplifying and stripping away that depth leaves you with a game that doesn't have the depth of DX but yet isn't that great a shooter, either.
quote:
...and (b) they were done for selfish reasons? With the way the industry is at the moment, we're lucky mature games like this are still getting published at all.
No, it's possible Harvey Smith made a bunch of mistakes and/or isn't as good a designer. I think Smith was a factor but mixed in is the deliberate attempt to address a wider audience and they mishandled that goal. Is that selfish? No - they're a commercial entity so trying to expand their market should is to be expected. What they did is misunderstand (or just plain stuff up) why DX was successful in the first place and what purchasers would want in a sequel.
In a world full of small, struggling, under-financed game studios held over barrels by their publishers, I don't feel lucky that an established "big brand" dev decided to release a very average game.
I'll let goshuto defend his own comments but Spector has invited criticism. In interview after interview instead of sticking to DX:IW he got on a soap-box and talked over and over about the lack of creativity and originality in the games market. If he's going to preach about it he better have his own house in order. DX:IW isn't it.
_________________
Editor @ RPGDot |
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Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:36 pm |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
quote:
Originally posted by Dhruin
Ion's job advertisment might have revealed that they've changed the perspective for Thief 3
Well, the T3 version I test-played last October was 1st person, but you never know. |
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Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:12 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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quote:
Originally posted by piln
If you dislike some of those decisions, does that automatically mean that (a) they are wrong, and (b) they were done for selfish reasons? With the way the industry is at the moment, we're lucky mature games like this are still getting published at all.
I don't recall anyone saying Ion Storm was wrong. However, they made so many compromises to fit the game on a console that the end result was not a sequel to DX1. It was some other game based on the same universe. That's what the criticism is all about. They didn't do it for "selfish reasons," they did it for commercial reasons, which is prefectly acceptable for a company do to, since there's this small thing called revenue that's so necessary for the survival of a company... yes, even a company which makes video games. It would be naive to state otherwise.
quote:
Originally posted by piln
lol... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that was a joke. Firstly, I'm sure you know that Harvey Smith was lead designer on Invisible War. Secondly, I'm sure you're aware of the titles that Spector did work on as lead designer or project leader. Thirdly... it's the most ridiculous comment I've ever seen posted on these forums. That's why I'm convinced it must have been a joke. It was, wasn't it?
*sigh* Where to begin?
Spector was the project lead for DX2. He gave the post of lead designer to Smith, because, as he said, he did not want DX2 to be a carbon copy of DX1; he wanted some new ideas. That's mistake #1, because a sequel is supposed to be similar, in several aspects, to its prequels. If not, then why even bother calling it a sequel? Name brand recognition? The Deus Ex name is not worth that much. Yes, there can be new elements added and old elements removed, but DX2 basically stripped the core gameplay of DX1, and this, this, is what the criticism is all about.
However, Spector, for some reason or other, was afraid of giving complete freedom to Smith. That's mistake #2, because if you don't trust someone, then why assign them to a position of authority (in this case lead designer)? So Spector demanded that every design decision taken by Smith to be approved by him first... and he approved them all. This results in mistake #3, as Spector himself admitted that he was somewhat doubtful of some design decisions taken by SMith, but for some bizarre reason decided to approve them anyway. Does that make sense to you? It sure doesn't to me. Either he agreed with the decisions and gave full power to Smith, or he didn't and assumed the role of lead designer. His indecision was everybody's loss.
As for Spector's past: yes, I'm aware of some games he designed. This is precisely why I wrote "Currently Spector is only the former." Bold letters added for your convenience.
Furthermore, John Carmack is a mediocre designer at best. But a genius at engine writing. I really don't see how anyone could refute this statement; you haven't, so I'll assume you called my post ridiculous because of the Spector part.
Last, if you're going to call my post "the most ridiculous comment I've ever seen posted on these forums," at least tell me why you think it's ridiculous, so I can refute it. All that statement says is that you don't read these forums a lot, apparently.
_________________
"Tree stuck in cat. Firemen baffled."--Simcity 3K
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."--Soren Aabye Kierkegaard |
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Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:41 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
quote:
Originally posted by Jaz
quote:
Originally posted by Dhruin
Ion's job advertisment might have revealed that they've changed the perspective for Thief 3
Well, the T3 version I test-played last October was 1st person, but you never know.
I didn't pay too much attention to that job advert, myself. Although I am curious which project requires testers with both sneaker and third-person experience.
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Editor @ RPGDot |
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Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:03 am |
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