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Necrosis
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 14 Nov 2002
Posts: 41
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I am relatively new to AD&D games. I have played Baldur's Gate and Torment through completely, and am now playing Icewind Dale. I enjoy these games immensely, but there is one aspect of gameplay which is really bothering me. How do you know which spells to have memorized and which potions to purchase BEFORE you get in a fight? My experience with these games goes like this: get in a fight, get my ass kicked, reload the game, adjust the spells in my mage's spellbook, rest (so he can memorize them), buy some relevant potions (for example, I may have learned from my first attempt at the battle that I'm up against creatures that attack me with fire, so I better have some fire-resistance potions ready next time). It takes away from the immersiveness and spontaneity to have to attempt a battle to find out what I need to win, reload the game, properly prepare with this new knowledge I really shouldn't have, and try the fight again. Any tips from you veterans out there as to how these games should be played?
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Death: Peace, at last |
Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:28 pm |
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SirVincealot
Head Merchant
Joined: 21 May 2002
Posts: 50
Location: Toronto |
That is precisely why I don't play them anymore - they require too much meta-game thinking. The fact is that there's too little strategy in any of the current RPGs, except for FALLOUT TACTICS and JAGGED ALLIANCE. When things go wrong in BG or IWD, they just get worse. It's a case of "rock-paper-scissors" too much of the time - no option for cover, for orderly retreat, for concealement, ect.
I eventually learned to carry a little of everything and/or send specific party members against specific monsters; I had a "robe of turning" (a thnigamabob that sent any offensive spell right back to its caster) in BG2 and I used only that character against beholders.
Give me an imaginative DM and a couple friends; I'd much rather play Pen&Paper . . .
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"The claymore doth permit me to cut effrontery with sharpened steel" |
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Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:35 am |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
I don't like the AD&D spell system so much, so I rely on my heavy fighters and healers, my mage just memorizes one spell: good old Fireball.
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Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:39 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Fireballs, big swords, fireballs, best armor you can afford, fireballs, maxing important stats for the class, oh and did I mention fireballs? 
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Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:40 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I think a lot of players end up reloading major battles as you described so I wouldn't worry that you're doing anything wrong! The Infinity Engine games have a emphasis on strategic fights and in my opinion sometimes made these fights too hard.
Still, with experience you'll develop techniques that should work most of the time, except the big boss fights where most players would need to reload no matter how good they are.
Everyone has their favourite tactics, but in general casting a few buff spells (things like bless) in advance, perhaps web or similar to slow the enemy down and a fireball or two (or other area damage spell) to soften them up while they're webbed and a few summoned creatures will go a long way to victory. Use quick spells like Magic Missile to disrupt enemy casters (doesn't work so well in 3rd Ed games unfortunately).
You're right that this can diminish the immersion but working out these strategic combinations is one of the joys of these games.
Good luck! |
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Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:51 am |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
I think that's the best thing about D&D wizards, they are only powerful when not surprised and you have to really think what you will need. As I play D&D mostly online now, restoring a saved game and trying again doesn't work. It's nice to really have to think about what you need, especially when the servers I play in don't allow you to rest repeatedly, only after certain amount of gameworld hours.
But if you want more versatility, play a sorcerer. His advantage is exactly the fact that he doesn't need to memorize spells in advance. The drawback is ofcourse the fact that the number of knows spells is lower..
Also, a magic user never relies on memorized or know spells only. A prepared magic user has always scrolls for the most critical spells, or spells that you don't need that often but when you need them, they're critical. A low-level mage should have some scrolls of invisibility, magic missile and summon creature I or II etc. High-level mages have abundance of different scrolls to fit every situation. When backing up with scrolls, you only need to memorize the most typical spells that usually fit every combat or non-combat situation.
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Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:11 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
In Val's words: Many scrolls of fireball!
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Mon Nov 18, 2002 7:05 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I'm afraid I'm going to have to differ with everyone else here.
Fireballs and big armor don't win battles in these games. Taking away the other guys fireballs and big armor does.
Forget 'buff' spells. The enemy will strip them from you. Minimalize offensive spells... the true enemy will be warded against them.
Head straight for the 'debuffers'. Anything the screws with the other guys defenses and makes him vulnerable is a good thing. Especially in Baldurs Gate 2 and IWD.
Problem with those pesky invulnerable wizards with multiple weapon immunities and spell protections? Whammo. A few Breech Spells and a Warding Whip or two and he's chunky bits from the fighters swords.
Even in the old style gold box games... I watched a friend play the battle against Draconis in Hap in Curse of the Azure Bonds... he took a few tries to beat it. No problems here. Two invisible wizards running down, crossfiring cone of colds to clear up the 'fodder' protecting the wizard... and the wizard was all alone.
Dispel magic for his annoying little fire shield spell and... he was dead.
The key to winning these games (any game) is to negate any advantage the enemy has... for your own advantages are innately greater and will carry the day.
Once they're neutered... well, if you've got a mind to... let the fireballing commence. 
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"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
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Mon Nov 18, 2002 8:12 pm |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
Ok, in the Gold-Box series I used one other Spell: Sleep
But the new generation (Baldurs Gate 1+2, Icewind Dale 1) I have beaten easily with one Fireball-Mage or with parties without mages.
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Tue Nov 19, 2002 12:11 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
These are good points, Xen, especially against the mages in BG2. But I've still fireballed my way through all the infinity games
I've never been very imaginative...
Edit: left out "way".
Last edited by Dhruin on Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tue Nov 19, 2002 6:56 am |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
I can not really comment on the BG2 and IWD2 mages, I was kidding before about the scrolls of fireballs. As to the goldbox games, another good spell (priest not MU) was hold person. Very effective for the instant kill (at least against lower level guys).
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Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:14 pm |
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Necrosis
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 14 Nov 2002
Posts: 41
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Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I find the area effect spells (such as fireball) difficult to use without hurting my own characters; I guess I need to practice them more. The fireball spell was not at all useful in beating Belhifet at the end of Icewind Dale (I just finished that game this week); turns out that tough bastard is completely immune to fire damage. A warhammer + 4 and lots of acid arrow spells did the trick; I kept trying different tactics until I was able to complete the fight with all my characters still alive. That was quite satisfying. Thanks again, and game on!
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Death: Peace, at last |
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Fri Nov 29, 2002 7:43 pm |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
Fireball, instant death spells and strong healing spells thats it.
Also some protection, stats increasing spells like bull strenght, might of one, meditation, prayer etc. are really helpful. |
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Sat Nov 30, 2002 1:06 pm |
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digit
Village Dweller
Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 4
Location: Surrey, UK |
I think I have playing wizards/sorcerors in the AD&D universe down pretty well. When grouped with a mixed party I can usually go for ages without resting to memorise spells. Usually the way to approach your spell selection, that I find helps the most, is to think of situations that can arise. Like how would the battle pan out if you heavy fighter got charm cast on him or her. Usually depending on the area you are in, and your first few encounters, you can depict what you will be battling. Fire/lava area, select ice/cold spells. Undead crypts or tombs, get rid of your enchantment and alteration spells in favour of more direct damage spells in the evocation invocation areas. I must say I found playing a sorceror really cool, you have to be so careful about your spell selection as you cannot change them unless you level. (IWD2 you can't change them period) Also keep some defensive spells handy like spell shield, minor globe and so on. Haste is a crown pleaser and everyone can use it, improved invisibility is also a good selection as well as instant kills like finger of death and phantasmal killer or word of faith. Really at the end of it all, it is just down to a good balance. Your magic user will always suffer if you go full bolt for one are of spells. Like just direct damage, just protection etc. Some favourites that are always good are Charm, Mind Blank, Chaotic Commands, Spell Shield, Haste, Improved Invisibily, Mass Haste, Mass Invisibility (check the rules on this, in IWD2 its not implemented the same as previous BG games).
Hope that gives you some ideas for spell selection. A great combo for NWN is Darkness and Ultra Vision. Some might say that it is a little too powerful as often the NPCs don't know what to do with it
Cheers,
Ian
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The Adrenaline Vault
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Wed Dec 11, 2002 9:46 pm |
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Gothic Soul
Master of Shadows
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 682
Location: Underdark |
oK I'm in the sword coast and I don't find any fireball spell is that right???
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"Whow, the necromancer is here" -Bartacus to myself |
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Sat Jan 04, 2003 8:57 pm |
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