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TheMadGamer
High Emperor
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 487
Location: Southern California |
quote:
Originally posted by crpgnut
If you really want to know why Cleve is hated so much, spend a few hours reading some of his posts in the comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg newsgroup. Here's one about Americans and 9/11:
Notice how whatever scenario the Americans come up with these days, no
matter what happens the shopping malls don't close and food courts
continue to remain in service. That is because most "Americans" (?)
are clinically insane and have completely lost touch with reality.
Feelings of immunity or invulnerability because of the loose precedent
of the past 40 years is a seriously schizoid view of the world we live
in ... that is all about to end.
I had a good laugh watching you all run around after Sept. 11 trying
desperately to buy the gas masks I told you to purchase three years
beforehand. I drank a big iced tea and laughed and laughed. You were
in quite a dumb animal panic, weren't you? Your poor little cerebrums
has a brief glimpse of the possibilities.
Believe me, your tiny brains could never imagine what is in store for
you eventually. But don't listen. Just keep shopping at those food
courts and watching Jerry Springer, I'm sure you will defy all the
known laws of physics and continue in happy-TV land forever and ever.
There you go. This is one of many, many offensive posts by Cleve throughout the years. If you really want to have some fun look at the picture of Cleve taken by Corwin. Then go to the newsgroups and look at how Cleve describes himself. It is hilarious 
I live in California. I'd have to agree with him despite his blunt tone. But what does his political view of the world have to do with the release date of his game?
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The Poster Previously Known As NeptiOfPovar |
Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:51 pm |
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FadedC
Guest
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The Cleve snippit that CRPGdot posted isn't really among his more offensive statements. You'd have to delve into his views on white supremacy and other similarly themed topics to really get into the true depths of why he is hated. Although needless to say people were rather sensitive in the immediate days following 9/11 and laughing at them about it is a good way to make enemies.
As for how it effects the release date, it does not. But it does make people look for an excuse to lash out against him. Although some of Cleve's statements and opinions have caused quite a few people to believe he might be delusional, and if you do believe that it would logically cause you to cast doubts on anything he says, including release dates.
To Corwin,
As I'm sure you know, nobody is going to take you up on your offer to fly halfway around the world to play a demo of a computer game that may or may not exist, so that particular offer is not particularly helpful in the discussion. But I'm sure the truth will come out soon enough, one way or another.
Oh and I don't think I've ever seen a discussion when Cleve did not present rather 'strong' posts. So I would not call it something strictly in the past. Just check the last dicussion on RPGdot he was which is saved on the game database entry for Grimoire. His words (along with those of others arguing withhim) eventually caused the admins to lock the discussion. |
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Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:16 pm |
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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
While those type of posts are offensive, I have seen worse, like some from a certain person on another site who thought America should be broken up and wished for every American to be exterminated for our seemingly unanimous support of the Iraq War (funny, since much of the population did not support it, even if we support our troops, because we like to remember they're human). But I agree, Cleve's political views, while disturbing, have little to do with the release of his game. If Cleve has a bad reputation, the burden lies on him to either deliver or keep in line with expectations and not deliver. If his promises aren't worth much, then why pay attention? Don't waste precious time or breath on a man you don't trust.
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Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
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Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:33 pm |
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soulknight6
Village Dweller
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 8
Location: St. Louis |
| Race Hating: From Soulknight |
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I agree with all you guyz about the racial and stupid remarks mention by our mysterious visitor. We dont need that type of attitude from likes of him on our forum. Maybe the administrators can track his IP address and ban him. We all are bonded by our love for games,regardless of race,religion, or "how tall you are". It's a shame we can't go ANYWHERE without these idiots coming in and trying to screw it up.
P.S. I'm a new member here but, I do have strong views on ignorant and biased remarks. For anyone who's wondering on the type of member I am, I also have another message posted on "WoW Doomed?" on page 2.
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I've been a gamer ever since I can remember. Love to play with and talk to people who have the same love for games. As mentioned before, I also love chess, pool, and old martial arts films. I also recently formed an interest in japanese anime. If anyone knows of any good ones I should see,e-mail me. I've already seen "Fist of the North Star" and "Ninja Scroll". |
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Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:15 pm |
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crpgnut
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 22 May 2002
Posts: 197
Location: St. Louis |
Just to clarify my position: I think Cleve is a complete wacko and I posted one of his milder newsgroup rants to present this. That said, I'm hoping that he does release Grimoire and that it proves to be a decent game. I like Corwin, and he says the game shows promise. It may be 10 years late, but we're not exactly wallowing in great crpgs at the moment. Graphics, while nice, don't usually make or break a game. It remains to be seen if Cleve can restrain from placing his prejudices inside his game. Unlike Wizardy, Cleve has no company-types to hold him accountable. This game will likely sink or swim based on how well Cleve keeps his opinions from showing up in dialogue.
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'nut |
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Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:04 pm |
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Guest
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You've seen worse... so that makes what he says okay? |
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Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:54 pm |
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Guest
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As with late great Hunter S. Thompson, most things that come from this guy are clearly intended to shock first and then convey some secondary observation that in retrospect is not half as radical as some would like to think it from their initial reaction. You probably notice that the most radical things are said by others about what they claim this guy wrote, yet they never seem to be able to produce anything that matches their expectations. I think like the Gonzo himself he is very good at getting extreme reactions from readers who were not too bright to begin with. His rep is bigger than his bite, as is the case with Thompson.
Grimoire looks like a good game. |
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:47 am |
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Naked_Lunch
Village Leader
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 86
Location: New york, tangiers, and interzone |
Holy shit does Grimoire suck.  
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irc.gamesurge.net #planescape #fallout |
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:18 pm |
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cecirdr
Head Merchant
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 66
Location: Newport, OR USA |
| Is there a story in this game? |
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I've been waiting for grimore for a long time....but sometimes I wonder whether I'll be able to tolerate it. To me, an RPG is about playing a character in a story. If Grimore has a story, it's likely to be rather warped in it message compared to how most people think. I for one am not inclined to have the same beliefs and fears as Cleave. (even though I despise our rampant consumerism, pillaging of natural reseources and our proclivity to ignore what's really happening in the world because we got some new goodie that distracts us) So it's likely that any story in Grimore will be one that I don't realate to.
If Grimore is just fetch quests and hack n slash, then I wouldn't be interested either. So..if there's not a story, I'm not going to be interested and if there is a story, it'll likely be odd or paranoid to such a degree that I'll probably not like it. Hmmmm, the game is likely a non-starter for folks like me. Too bad...I had wanted the game years ago. |
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:55 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Hey cecirdr! Long time, no see. 
You might want to chat with some of the folks that are beta testing the game. They can probably give you some insights into the story. Check this thread here.
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Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:27 pm |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Lunch, please stay out of the Grimoire threads; you've made your point despite knowing less than nothing about the actual game.
Plotwise, it has NO warped political message, or any political message. IT'S A GAME!! It has humour, puzzles, quests (but not many in the the sense of NPC's giving them to you, rather there are things you need to do in order to progress the plot and open up new areas) It's quite similar to the old Wizardry games in many ways. The free shareware section takes about 30 hours to complete, so you can have a lengthy play to see if you wish to continue. Good as I think the first section is, the rest of the game is actually much deeper and better. It's very old school and you need to bring your brain along, not just a twitchy digit!! 
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If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:04 pm |
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Naked_Lunch
Village Leader
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 86
Location: New york, tangiers, and interzone |
quote:
Lunch, please stay out of the Grimoire threads; you've made your point despite knowing less than nothing about the actual game.
I know god damned enough that it will suck. Name a game that has been in the making for over 6 years and actually came out and met expectations?
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irc.gamesurge.net #planescape #fallout |
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:18 pm |
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cecirdr
Head Merchant
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 66
Location: Newport, OR USA |
| Surprised you even remembered me |
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quote:
Originally posted by Val
Hey cecirdr! Long time, no see.
You might want to chat with some of the folks that are beta testing the game. They can probably give you some insights into the story. Check this thread here.
Yeah, I've been outta touch for a long time. I haven't been playing RPGs much at all in the last year. I think my personality must be changing. For some reason, they just don't appeal to me the way they used to. Of couse I was never an action fan, so the fact that most RPGs are action based nowadays may have more to do with my not gaming much anymore. Japanese RPGs feel cliche ridden to me, American ones offer the freedom of non-linearity, but both are heading the direction of action based games. (and don't even get me started on what's probably just a middle aged female viewpoint of why in the world do so many RPGs persist in kill or be killed, almost everyone's an enemy who'll stab you in the back, develop your character by killing, plot progression scheme? Maybe there's only "so many" stories out there and recycling is the name of the game.)
Anyway, I've digressed; back to Grimore. I was probably a bit presumptuous (sp?) to state that Grimore might not appeal to me due to an "odd" storyline. I should give the game a try when it's available to demo. Thanks Corwin for the heads up as to how the Beta plays regarding story and quest elements. |
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Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:06 am |
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Moriendor
Black Ring Leader
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 1306
Location: Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by Naked_Lunch
quote:
Lunch, please stay out of the Grimoire threads; you've made your point despite knowing less than nothing about the actual game.
I know god damned enough that it will suck. Name a game that has been in the making for over 6 years and actually came out and met expectations?
That's an easy one: Morrowind. |
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Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:06 pm |
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Naked_Lunch
Village Leader
Joined: 22 Aug 2004
Posts: 86
Location: New york, tangiers, and interzone |
Bullshit. 
Whether or not it met expecations (I wasn't following it), it sucked. It was horrible, and that's the bottom line. Period.
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irc.gamesurge.net #planescape #fallout |
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Sat Jul 02, 2005 3:23 pm |
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