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Navaros
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 40
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@corwin: i'm not trying to insult you. i am merely making the point that most people these days, have no taste and neither do the devs who make RPG games (unless you consider jokes about hiding hamsters up one's rectum to be "tasteful").
if my opinion about BG 2 is in the minority as you stated - that only serves to UNDERSCORE my point. most people have no taste, so the quality of RPGs these days is crap: since crap will sell. that explains why all RPGs stink these days; answering what the original poster was asking about.
instead of comparing Degrees, i defy you or anyone else to:
1. prove that such immature, babyish, and out-of-context lines do not EXIST in BG 2 just as i've stated them in my previous points
2. prove that these lines are "mature", in-context, and something a real character in that world would actually say
3. prove that a person of reasonable intelligence who plays an RPG would not have his enjoyment of the game ruined by babyish, out-of-context, immature nonsense. the whole purpose of an RPG is to be immersed in a believable world. if characters are using babyish phrasings; using words/phrases that have no place in that world (especially since the words were not even invented at that time in history) - the RPG is a failure. ESPECIALLY so if that RPG presents itself as a "serious RPG" like BG 2 does. nothing serious about the lines i've quoted-above, or "a big den of STINKING EVIL" or "Go for the eyes, Boo!" - that kind of stuff can only exist as immature schlock - not in a SERIOUS RPG. i defy you to prove otherwise. |
Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:12 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
I suppose the concepts of "fantasy" and "humor" are lost on you, eh? 
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Sat Apr 24, 2004 1:50 pm |
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Lord_Brownie
High Emperor
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Unfashionable arm of the spiral galaxy |
CRPGs change all the time. Right now graphics and action seem to be the focus, but soon the market will no longer support these games, the marginal propensity to consume to goes down for these types of games, and companies will then focus on some of the other asspects of the genre to get sells. Not that a CRPG is bad just because it focuses on graphics and action, it just gets old after while. The MMORPG are stuck in a rut, too. After the current crop of in-production games is finished, I think the next gernation will be very interesting.
BG games where good, but not REALY GOOD. As far as immature stuff, i dont label it as immature, just odd-ball humor that is sometimes fun, and yes, I have goofy friends that say stuff that maybe called immature by some, but it is just fun. Humor as a techque is often postioned within the context of serous works because the contrast is what makes it funny. Like those two skeletons in DD, I wasnt expecting them half-way through a dungeon crawl, so the humor was all the more striking.
So to answer your questions Navaros:
1. I disagree with calling them "immature, babyish", some are out-of-context which is another technque used for humor.
2. They are in-context for humor, they are mature if mature people enjoy the humor. Spend some time the military and you will here some realy crazy stuff at the oddest times, and maybe say some of it, so it is something a real character would say. (By saying it one is making themselves a real character  ).
3. Ad hominen.
All that asside, what is enjoyable to one person maynot be enjoyable to others. I love ToEE, my wife loves
M&M games |
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Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:50 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
quote:
Originally posted by Navaros
RPG's stink now because they are developed by the average joe, for the average joe
class-act devs like Dynamix don't exist any more. instead today we get devs who's brains have been eroded by things like Britney Spears music and asinine TV shows like "3rd Rock from the Sun"
Fortunately, there's still a few developers from those days going around and I'm sure they'll save the industry. For example, Neil Hallford who co-wrote the story and script for Betrayal at Krondor (and was responsible for level design) is still doing excellent work. His latest stuff is for Dungeon Siege and EverQuest: Champions of Norrath - two hardcore classics with great depth -- unlike that BG2 tripe -- I'm sure you'll agree.
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Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:03 am |
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konny666
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 219
Location: Babylon 6 |
Dungeon Siege and EverQuest had "great depth"? That's not what I heard.
(Sorry, my sarcasm detector isn't functioning today, if that's the case...)
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Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:01 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
*Kicks Kony666's sarcasm detector*
There. Hopefully that worked. 
No, they don't have much depth. My point is that saying modern devs just aren't as good as "class act devs like Dynamix" isn't very accurate. Some of the
Dynamix guys are still around and doing...well, Dungeon Siege.
I agree there aren't enough deep CRPGs anymore but it isn't because the devs brains have been "eroded" (in most cases, anyway).
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Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:45 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
@Navaros - I wasn't 'caught' by the Baldur's Gate 1 (as most of you know), and so have never played BG2. However, the word "sucks" might be a little strong. Something more along the lines of "I didn't like it" or "Man was the writing awful" would be more appropriate.
As to proving things, why bother. You did not enjoy the game. Thanks for letting us know. In your opinion most people have no taste. Fine. But, some people did enjoy the game, and your pissing on their experience only lessens their opinion of you and/or their remembered enjoyment, so why do it? It is a negative and destructive thing to do and serves no purpose other then allowing you to vent at the cost of others.
My suggestion, see a shrink. They are qualified to help you with your anger management issues, we are not.
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Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:40 pm |
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Navaros
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 40
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@Dhruhin: i was shocked when i saw that Neal Halford wrote Dungeon Siege. why would a genius like that have wrote such a terrible, almost non-existent story? from what i hear, Dungeon Siege has almost no story in the game at all. and what it does have is very stupid; ie: your main characters are "Farm Boy" or "Farm Girl"
the only thing i can think of is that: the devs of Dungeon Siege insisted on overpowering what Neal had originally written and forced him to "dumb-it-down" and "throw most of it away" so that Dungeon Siege would sell to legions of mindless morons; ie: your typical consumer
i've never played Dungeon Siege so maybe i'm wrong about some of this. i'd certainly like to hear more about how such a brilliant writer could turn-out such a garbage-story.
@ my critics: i can understand and appreciate humor in an RPG *if* the following two criteria are met:
1. it is IN-CONTEXT. out-of-context just ruins the immersion factor of the game and reminds you with a VERY LOUD YELL IN YOUR EARS: "this world is fake, you're just playing a dumb video game!" calling a shop "Adventurer's Mart" is not funny, that's just hokey. the other lines i've mentioned specifically are just some of the many examples of babyishness and out-of-context attempts at humor which FAIL MISERABLY. even if the humor is out-of-context and actually funny (which the "humor" in BG 2 is NOT) then i'm too busy dwelling on the fact that my immersion level in the game is now at ZERO to bother laughing. nothing out-of-context should ever appear in a SERIOUS RPG - period.
2. if it is ACTUALLY FUNNY. implying someone hides a hamster up his anus is not funny. that's just plain juvenile. the other "humor" in BG 2 is likewise simplistic, juvenile, and very poorly-written
@ the guy saying i need a shrink: maybe i do need a shrink, but the FACTS which i've pointed out that make BG 2 a horrible game stand up to scrutiny from any third-party reader of reasonable intelligence. therefore my mental health is IRRELEVANT to the case which i've made about why BG 2 sucks. yes the word "sucks" is a strong word; however i also see strong words for BG 2 at the opposite end of the spectrum all the time; ie: "BG 2 is the best RPG ever!" so i feel the word "sucks" is a justifiable word to counter such saturated, profoundly inaccurate statements. |
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Mon Apr 26, 2004 3:02 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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quote:
the guy saying i need a shrink: maybe i do need a shrink, but the FACTS which i've pointed out that make BG 2 a horrible game stand up to scrutiny from any third-party reader of reasonable intelligence. therefore my mental health is IRRELEVANT to the case which i've made about why BG 2 sucks.
No.
You have not given any facts nor any proof. You have given your rabid rambling, however.
Mentioning a great game like Baldur's Gate 2 in the same thread as a pile of crap like Betrayal at Krondor is a travesty.
This is a fact, and you know it. |
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Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:38 pm |
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Lord_Brownie
High Emperor
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Unfashionable arm of the spiral galaxy |
quote:
Originally posted by Navaros
1. "this world is fake, you're just playing a dumb video game!"
I agree that out-of-context humor does say this, but it can be very funny to hear because it's true! Irony. Entire careers of some great thinkers is devoted to Irony. Irony. It does not mean: "made of iron" or "containing iron", but I dont have to explain this to you.
LB |
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Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:30 am |
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