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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
| The Truth About Violent Youth and Video Games |
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There's a most illuminating article up at Gaming Revolution examining the issue of violence and video games. It makes some startling statements, such as this one:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><i>
<DIV>There is no epidemic of youth violence in America.</DIV>
<DIV>The whole concept is a lie manufactured, distributed and perpetuated by the media. Kids are not killing each other more frequently than they used to. In fact, it turns out the opposite is true.</DIV></i></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>The writer then goes on to make this interesting comparison:<BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE><i>
<DIV>Gaming is also a new medium, one that has recently become wildly successful. Young people play them and old folks don’t understand, so they must be bad. Don’t forget that in the 1950’s, rock and roll was linked to youth violence in the same way. The hedonistic, tribal rhythms were going to turn America’s youth into a bunch of violent maniacs. Rock and roll was banned and censored all over the country. A bill was even put before Congress in 1955 to ban rock and roll altogether.</DIV>
<DIV>Something exactly like what is happening now. Sorry guys, I don’t care what people say, rock and roll is here to stay. <BR>
<BR>
You'll find the entire article, complete with charts and even more evidence, <A href="http://gr.bolt.com/articles/violence/violence.htm" target=_blank>Here.</A></i><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
</DIV> |
Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:12 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
I disagree. Rock and roll is the devil and so is video games. After listening to britney spears or playing a game of metroids I go out and try to be recruited by terroists, rape nuns, kill black children, and show chickens my genitals. Its not my fault, I didn't put these ideas in my own head; these ideas were placed there by a colaboration between satan and game manufacturers and music producers.
Thank God Hillary Clinton is doing something about this epedemic, she is like Mother Terisa. Excuse me, I see a chicken walking by that hasn't seen my genitalia.
_________________
Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:19 pm |
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Mystery Guy
Guest
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That's why I'm a Libertarian.
My motto: Do whatever the heck you want, so long as I don't have to pay for it.
It's a crying shame that this has become the new political rallying point. I mean, video games? Hello? Does anyone have any common sense anymore? It's like the lady who is suing Take Two interactive over the hot coffee mod...and her son is only 14. Apparently, she didn't read the box that said 17+...or monitor her child's internet usage enough to see him downloading the mod to begin with.
I say let them ban it all...because when G-men come knocking on my door asking for me to stop playing my games, things will get ugly. |
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Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:35 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
I understand the old lady, she came from a different time where this stuff was unexeptable. She probably doesn't understand the rating system, she just saw that her angel grandson (as most grandmothers see their grandson) had a porn game and took steps to protect him. I blame the system for allowing frivolous lawsuites to enter the courts. But I can't even do it in this case since Take Two admitted that the porn content was developed by them. I think it is a silly case but it has a little merit. She bought a M rated game for a 14 year old, but it ended up being an AO game with downloaded content from the developers.
Things will just get worse, this is just part of the new McCarthyism that is stealing our freedoms and autonomy.
_________________
Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:55 am |
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Arma
Mysterious Lady
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 1230
Location: in the middle of hell |
The whole point is ridiculous. There are no violent games, only violent people. I am only eager to see what will be blamed next for a US teenager playing a game that is next labelled violent and goes out and shoots a dozen of his mates.
Btw, is it me or do these things happen more ofthen in the US or are they just getting more media attention> |
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Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:44 am |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
I really don't know where it happens, but all it seems to need to prosper is a society that says the person at fault is the victim and the buck can be passed to the group with the deepest pockets. In my opnion it used to be obvious when a person sueing only wanted money, but now it seems some people are just trying to force their moral will on others through the courts.
_________________
Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:30 pm |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
I agree with Hillary on this one. 
Well, kinda..
While I dont agree that there needs to be some big federal investigation of a video game company, of an obscene game already by just about any standard, I do agree that more needs to be done to keep things that have been rated "mature content" out of the hands of children. I'm all for fining the hell out of people who sell mature content to children, in the same way they are for other things. We dont let them buy booze or smokes, and we dont let them buy pornography or into NC-17 rated movies either.
I have no problem with people who are adults buying adult content, but I dont want kids getting their paws on it.
But the lawsuit, and the investigation, and all that is pretty ridiculous.
@ Lady A. - Yes violent incidents happen more here, and you know why? Because were evil, plain and simple, take it from one of us demons purrsonally. To the core, pure evil. Live for evil, die for evil. See? Explains everything nicely
_________________
“Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain |
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Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:55 pm |
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Arma
Mysterious Lady
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 1230
Location: in the middle of hell |
Sam, I am not saying that it is true that in the US there are more of those accidents, but only that I have the impression of this being so. Those are not the same.
And, nomatter what LEGAL precautions are taken, the whole thing about keeping M and AO rated games out of kids hands is left to the parents. Brightest example - the old lady that bought the M-rated game and gave it to her 14 year old grandson. I believe that with this case all the points of Hilary and all the other idiot politicians (not that there are any other kind of politicians, to say the truth) that jumped on the same bandwagon, becomes moot. Nonexistent. |
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Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:40 pm |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
Yeah, there isnt a whole lot we can do about granny buying it for a kid. Same with anything else, like booze or what not, some people buy things for kids they shouldnt have. But, we can make it to where they at least have to go thru an adult to do it, I think that might put a damper on some of it. Sure, I got bums to buy me beer when I was a minor, but it sure was a pain in the butt and risky thing to do. There were times we walked away empty handed because we couldnt find anyone to do it for us. There's going to be some adults that dont care, but that doesnt mean we should just let it be a free for all IMHO.
We Americans are evil, but I do think our evil is megaphoned a bit louder than others for various reasons. People have their eye on us for one, we are under the microscope more than most nations. people love to point us out at any opportunity they get to show capitalism sucks, guns suck, the Consitution sucks, we'd all be far better off if we turned into a bunch of passive,disarmed little she-men faeries who let a bunch of utopian beauracrats run our lives for us. Our children go to bed scared to death every night, we all do, our cities are like gladitorial arenas. You know the drill. And anything that helps paint that utterly ridiculous picture is championed.
We have one of the biggest populations so we get some bigger crime numbers that our press loves to trumpet, and it makes people happy. Other places dont fall under the same scrutiny, where horrendous things happen every day.How about the rampant "femicido" going on in Guatemala, El Salvador, and Mexico? Hear anything at all about that on the news? I found out about it from some Mexicans I work with and did some research on my own, it's a horrible thing going on in Latin America right now.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3046944.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3294659.stm
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/04/09/juarez/
Hear anything about that? Bet ya havent. Were any of those victims minors? Are the suspects minors, or suspected to be juveniles in gangs? Bet that wont make it into a Pravda, or for that matter, a NyTimes report of youth violence in the world. Even if it is found isnt minors, what does that say about the violence and nature of the violence and mayhem in that place, as compared to here? I dont see anything comparable being reported out of my cities and states here, yet our evil deeds fall under far more scrutiny than theirs.
So no, I dont think its unique to our country, I just think it's focused on more intensely for 2 reasons- political, and we just have a better press that loves to scream it from the rooftops at every chance they get.
*takes breath*
Ok, Im done now ='.'=
_________________
“Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain |
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Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:45 pm |
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Moriendor
Black Ring Leader
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 1306
Location: Germany |
I believe that the availability of guns in the US does play a major role. It's one less border on the way to commit a murder or -at worst- an amok run if getting the weapon is a no issue.
Owning a gun is generally prohibited in Germany so a potential killer would have to overcome that barrier first. The killer would have to go out and actively look for someone who is selling weapons.
Rumor has it that it isn't very difficult if you have friends from Eastern Europe  but -seriously- I personally wouldn't really know where to start.
Sure, could go to a major railway station and start asking people who look like they are into the drug biz but it seems more likely that you'll end up busted by an undercover cop than laying hands on a gun.
Some of you might have heard about the Erfurt (Erfurt = a town in Eastern Germany) school amok run though. It was executed by a 19 year old ex-student who shot 12 teachers, 2 students, one cop and finally himself.
He had a gun (or guns) because he was member of a shooting club (membership in a club like that is one of the few exceptions when you're allowed to own guns in Germany).
The media did, of course, blame it all on video games (especially Counter-Strike... later turned out he didn't even have the game installed on his PC) and movies.
Who knows if this would have ever happened if this guy had not had easy access to guns? Would he have been (criminally) energetic enough to bring up the effort to acquire a gun illegally? Would he "only" have commited suicide otherwise? Or was he going to pull this off no matter what (even if it would have taken weeks/months to acquire a gun)? Who knows?
I do believe that we would have a lot more shootings at schools (and among young people in general) though if guns were easily available. I don't think we have less violent people over here or less violent acts in general. It's just that the consequences aren't as bad when people over here beat up a teacher (and thus our incidents don't make it into international news very often... luckily).
--
Finally, to get back on topic... I don't think that there is any relationship between violence in video games and violence in RL. Holding a mouse in your hand and moving a cursor around on a screen vs holding an actual gun in your hand, pointing it at people and pulling the trigger just can not be compared in any way, shape or form. You would need an extremely disturbed person with a naturally built-in mental defect (as far as differentiating between fiction and reality is concerned) to make this happen.
Also, I think that it's very silly to draw any conclusions when a young male who commits a murder has first-person shooters installed on his PC. Just about every young male between age 15-25 (or so) does. It's just plain silly unless it's a proven fact that the person played those games 24/7. Even then it's -at most- a piece in the puzzle but by far not the whole picture when trying to figure out why a murder/amok run occurred.
P.S.: OK, that was all way too serious so on a lighter note, well, I think that Hilary just needs a little cigar treatment from Billy so she can be a happier person and focus on stuff that really matters . |
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Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:31 pm |
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Black_Lord
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 25 Apr 2002
Posts: 48
Location: Idaho |
I love games but let's take a look at retailers like Wal - Mart. They sell rated "R" movies with profanity, nudity, and etc. They only sell edited music if the album in question has an "explict lyric" sticker. They might sell an album with profanity if it was not rated with a sticker.. An example of that would be "No 4" by The Stone Temple Pilots, no advisory, contained profanity, and was sold by Wal - Mart. However I don't think they sell any music by rap artists unless they are edited. Sounds like discrimination? Well it is, by genre sort of.
Wal - Mart will not sell any adult movie titles above "R" which is why I don't shop there unless it is for cheap oil or something. Games are like movies, if they gave GTA3 an "Adults only" rating in it's entire state, Rockstar would go in an edit the game for kids over 17. It is the current trend of everything being PG - 13, selling to kids just sells more copies, or more movie tickets.
If they have such an issue with violence in games why not treat games, music and movies like beer and card people? Kids shouldn't be playing these kinds of games anyway, but as an adult I have the right to be able to purchase anything I want. As long as it is legal that is. 
For that matter why is tobacco still legal to buy at 18? It is as addictive as crack, and kills people. Oh yeah, the mighty tax dollar.
About guns, well I don't like them, at all. So I don't care if they outlaw them, but here in the USA, they won't. Even thugs have the right to bear arms here.
I know this sounds like a rant, but it is just another idiot's opinion...
My idiot light just went out..Aren't you glad?  |
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Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:35 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Moriendor
I believe that the availability of guns in the US does play a major role. It's one less border on the way to commit a murder or -at worst- an amok run if getting the weapon is a no issue.
Then why isn't the crime rate skyrocketing where I live? Practically everyone owns firearms here.
quote:
Originally posted by Moriendor
Owning a gun is generally prohibited in Germany so a potential killer would have to overcome that barrier first. The killer would have to go out and actively look for someone who is selling weapons.
Please tell me you're joking? You don't need a gun to kill. All you need is a car and a full tank of gas. A few of the right household chemicals mixed in the proper proportions and you have more destructive power than a simple firearm. A knife. A rock. A broken beer bottle. If you want to kill someone, then you'll find a way. The method doesn't matter. Almost twice as many people are murdered in Germany without the use of a firearm, then are (And that's according to the UN's statistics). So, some Germans must be finding alternative ways to kill each other.
As for the topic, the media, as always, loves to look for scapegoats. Anything that they can tear down, they will. Politicians want votes. So they'll echo a lot of what the media says so they can get their face on tv and look tough.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:02 am |
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Moriendor
Black Ring Leader
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 1306
Location: Germany |
Gah, I was misunderstood then  . I was strictly talking about school shootings since that is usually when video games are blamed to have played a role, i.e. when a seemingly ordinary (not gang member etc.) kid goes on a killing spree. I don't think that anyone in their right mind is going to blame video games when someone from kid gang A kills someone from kid gang B. That's a totally different story. As is murder in general. We do have our problems in Germany, of course (rival gangs of Russians, Vietnamese, Koreans, Croatians, Romanians, ... you name it) fighting over the drug biz "hot spots". No doubt. There's a lot of people dying every year and the availability of guns does not play a role at all.
However, I do stand by my statement that the availability of guns is a factor that should be considered when investigating why a seemingly ordinary young man grabs a gun and goes on a rampage. |
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Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:17 am |
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TheMadGamer
High Emperor
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 487
Location: Southern California |
As an avid gamer since I got my first Odyssey 1 system back in the mid 70s and owner of just about every single console released in the U.S. and avid computer gamer; Apple, Apple IIe, Macintosh, Vic-20, TRS-80 (Trash-80 for those of you in the know), C64, insert_a_few_other_miscellenaeous_computers_here, and of course, owner of many many Win-Tel PCs... I have played and replayed my share of games over just about 3 decades now.
What I find on most gaming forums is that the gaming community will agree for sure on one thing - and that one thing is a sort of knee-jerk reaction in opposition to any kind of assertion that videogames are somehow correlated with assertions of increased crime.
As a dad and a gamer, I can tell you that this has been a subject of interest for me for a long time, well before it became hip to stir up the pot on xyz gaming mag publication or abc internet gaming site by bringing up this subject.
Without getting into a huge dissertation, as I know the vast majority of you are salavating over the reply button to tell me just where I should be going, I can tell you that 'studies' that attempt to correlate videogaming with increased criminal or 'evil' behavior are not very interesting to me.
But what I have found interesting in my past research on the subject or studies that correlate anti-social behavior of all kinds, including violient crimes, with the cumulative media as the cause. Cumulative media is all media; TV, Movies, Magazines, Books, Videogames, Bill Boards you drive past on the roads etc.
What is interesting is that in most scientifically based studies I have come across over the years demonstrate that most media uses violence in their words, pictures, and images more so than non-violent words, pictures, and images.
I also find it interesting that while the vast majority of consumers who, if asked, deny they are influenced by media in the slightest, that billions of dollars are spent each year by major companies who happen to think their products and advertisements are worth such investment.
Media exposure isn't a single event. It is ongoing and persistent. I happen to believe it affects most of us in ways we have yet to discover. No, most people don't play a session of Grand Theft Auto and then decide to go out and kill somebody. But I am a believer that people who are unstable for whatever reason, perhpas a bad childhood couples with the ever-present media and its violent images can cause a small percentage of people to enact some seriously violent crimes.
Of course, that assertion is not really possible to prove just yet... but people like me, who grew up during the 1950s and perhpas earlier... started to see the danger of cigarrette smoking well before there were any kinds of studies proving they were bad. How did people know this before such studies. They lived life. They buried friends and family members in their 20s and 30s. From diseases like emphasema (sp). For a long time many people knew cigarettees were deadly before there was any such admission by the tobacco industry or a government body.
Today it's pretty much common knowledge that if you smoke cigarettes you have a good chance of dying painfully, and at a painfully early age. Fast forward a few decades, I think there will be sufficient research to correlate the steady drumbeat of violent imagry from collective media to anti-social behavior of all kinds.
Ok, press that Reply button now and tell me where to go...
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The Poster Previously Known As NeptiOfPovar |
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Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:04 am |
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Mystery Guy
Guest
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MadGamer:
Brilliant.
You made a good point. I wish you had been on my debate team back in high school. You even got me thinking differently, which is hard to do.
I have noticed the anti-social beahvior in the "younglings" coming up. The teen and 20-somethings seem to enjoy being twits, and have no shame at all. You can see it in game forums, or you can go to your local gaming establishment and listen to the people as they come in. I often do that (Though I really just go for the conversation with the employees) and notice that most of them are very rude and often times unaware of how immature they are.
I used to blame the parents, but maybe you have a point. I think most kids spend far too much time alone playing video games, and after awhile it stunts their social growth to a degree. It is then that they act out and do something horrible without feeling guilt or remorse.
Which gives me an even better reason to own a handgun. |
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Sun Jul 31, 2005 5:44 am |
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