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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
You heathen! Rack up those credit cards like a good capitalist! 
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
Wed May 15, 2002 5:48 pm |
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cecirdr
Head Merchant
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 66
Location: Newport, OR USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
Thanks. Morrowind may actuall fill half or more of these catagories, but my humble system can not run it. From what I have read it sounds very good.
This is, of course, an incentive to be a good little consumer and upgrade ... but I this time I *am* going to do it by saving!  ... So it's unamerican, so what!
I'm in the same boat except my only PC is a laptop...one I got in *February* with a 1.2 ghz pentium III, 512mb ram, and a 16mb mobility radeon. (the newer laptop video cards weren't out then but I need good battery life anyway) Sigh...so I can't run Morrowind. Kinda sad I think....But this chick probably won't be considered a good consumer. I'm not going to buy a desktop PC or an x-box just for one game. That'd get me in deep doo doo with the spousal overunit. So I guess I'll be unamerican with you. 
I'm hoping that the development of editing tools for games such as Dungeon Siege and Neverwinter will allow people to start creating different types of RPGs than the major game developers are putting out. If that's the case, it's irrelevant that DS didn't have much of a story. You could create your own. It sounds like hard work, but I'm hoping to learn a toolset and see what I can come up with on making my own rpg, but unless these editors are *really* robust, it's doubtful anyone will make more than mods or new levels to hack and slash. There is the coldstone RPG engine. It runs on a macintosh (which I already have as a desktop), but compiles for PC and Mac. I'm trying to learn how it compares to the new editors in games like DS and NWN.
Ceci |
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Wed May 15, 2002 6:58 pm |
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cecirdr
Head Merchant
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 66
Location: Newport, OR USA |
quote:
Originally posted by dteowner
You heathen! Rack up those credit cards like a good capitalist!
Ahhh, the smell of smoldering plastic.  Oh boy do I have experience with that! Sad but true....all good things must come to an end though  |
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Wed May 15, 2002 7:03 pm |
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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
If you have to live in debt, credit cards are the way to do it. 
_________________
Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
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Wed May 15, 2002 8:42 pm |
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Gig
Southern Spirit
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 3226
Location: NFG Headquarters |
quote:
Originally posted by cecirdr
But this chick probably won't be considered a good consumer
You can't say that here, it's a bad word!  There's a whole locked thread devoted to it and, believe me, tensions ran high! It got so bad that I mostly stayed out of it.
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
Thanks. Morrowind may actuall fill half or more of these catagories, but my humble system can not run it.
You can actually get away with a pretty meager system for Morrowind. I have a 450mhz PIII, 512megs and an original ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon 32meg card (I bought on the day of release!). I'd love to have a nice modern system and a full featured Radeon 8500 but, oh well!
If you turn off the music and set the draw distance and AI distance to minimum then it's playable. Yes, there is a lot of fog and rain but that's ok, it's like visiting my relatives in New England! It's a way better solution to obscuring the draw distance then just having the scenery pop into view or that Fog-of-War thing they did in Spellbinder. I never get a slide show, not even outdoors. I could probably make it even smoother if I changed the video res to 800x600 but I think it's fine at 1024x768. I get a kind of 'screen door' effect at 800x600.
Morrowind starts out mind numbingly slow. As a matter of fact MW was the dullest game I had ever played in the early part. Once it picks up, though, it's pretty amazing. Once I learned how the skill system worked I started over. I abandoned the canned character that I started with and made a custom class. It was way more fun in the early part when I was playing a character who's major and minor skills increase as I play in a comfortable style. The first character mostly increased in misc. skills so I wasn't getting level multipliers.
I'd say that if your system is equal to or better than mine, you should definitely give Morrowind a try!
_________________
''Perhaps I'm old and tired but I always think that the chances of finding out what really is going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say hang the sense of it and just keep yourself occupied. Look at me: I design coastlines. I got an award for Norway.''--Slartibartfast |
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Thu May 16, 2002 12:00 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
Gig,
Thanks for the info. I've been waiting for some one with a P3 450 to comment on MW...I am not sure my graphics card can cut it, its over 3 yrs old at this point, but I've printed out your suggestions and have put in a safe place, and will check my card out when I get home.
At the risk of having this thread moved: Since you have used the experience system in MW is it satisfying Okay, lets try that sentance again, what would you change about it (if anything)? I am very familiar with the Daggerfall system, is MW that different?
From what I know of the system, I would be fearful of feeling my char is at a dead end after maxing out the more commonly used skills. |
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Thu May 16, 2002 12:29 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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With 10 skills to level off of even if you started the game with 50 is all 10 of your primary and secondary skills (not possible without direct cheating) you would get 5 levels off each (50). So yes... your character would be stone dead in advancing further at level 51. But since nothing is truly deadly, I've heard, once you pass level 20 or so... (nothing I've run into can stand against me at level 4 with a conjure axe spell, truth be told. Took out a few set level 15 NPCs decked in full glass armor wielding daedric swords. Which suits me fine... I'm an explorer/quester more than a combat slasher).
I'm level uh... 4?... after 15 hours of questing and combat with that character. Pretty high ranking in the fighter guild and imperial guards.
My other character accidently blasted himself to level 9 in about 4 hours by being a damned good merchant. Of course, being level 9 with the combat skills of a level 1 character wasn't exactly healthy. I could have fixed it by paying a piece of my small fortune to get my combat skills up to par... but I'd rather do things the hard way. This time I most definately did NOT take merchantile as a primary/secondary...
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu May 16, 2002 12:42 pm |
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Gig
Southern Spirit
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 3226
Location: NFG Headquarters |
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
At the risk of having this thread moved: Since you have used the experience system in MW is it satisfying Okay, lets try that sentance again, what would you change about it (if anything)? I am very familiar with the Daggerfall system, is MW that different?
I've never played Daggerfall, I wasn't able to make it run under WinXP, so I have no idea how MW compares to it.
I think the xp system in Morrowind is very satisfying. I hated the system at first, I had a really hard time understanding it. As I started to understand how the xp worked and began playing properly I've come to realize that it's really beautiful. Morrowind is, by far, the most intricate RPG I've played and it took a little getting used to. I wouldn't know how to change MW's xp system even if I wanted to.
As far as reaching a dead end, I don't know. I'm fearful of the level cap also. I had a terrible experience with the one in Arcanum, it absolutely killed the game. I know that not everyone hit the cap but I did and it was awful. I'm really hoping that the same thing doesn't happen in Morrowind.
_________________
''Perhaps I'm old and tired but I always think that the chances of finding out what really is going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say hang the sense of it and just keep yourself occupied. Look at me: I design coastlines. I got an award for Norway.''--Slartibartfast |
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Thu May 16, 2002 1:55 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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The thing is Morrowind lets you control when you hit the level cap. Feel the cap approaching and don't want to lose interest or momentum with the character? Complete the game. Boom. It's that easy. You control your pace through the game.
Thing with Morrowind is you don't HAVE to do it all the first time through... in fact... you can't. You can't join every faction, every house and do every quest. You just can't. LIke it or not this game has replay value (NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - inhale- OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not replay value!!! In a CRPG!!! NOOOOO! ).
I fully expect to go through the game and do perhaps 30 percent of the content available. Maybe 40 if I'm dilligent. More to do next time.
Oh... and I did find the best way to avoid the level cap in Morrowind. I turned off my stats screen so I couldn't see what level I was.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu May 16, 2002 2:03 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
So in summary, (crossing threads with the discussion on level caps) you (Gig and EverythingXen) find that the MW experience system is the best one out there to date. The caps do not seem to present a problem, and the system encourages *roll* playing, not EQ-like character maxing. And, at this point there are no glaring problems or omissions?
It this a pretty fair assesment?
PS - A CRPG with *true* replay value? Will wonders never cease? |
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Thu May 16, 2002 3:14 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I wouldn't say it's the best... but that's because I like structured games. But I will say that it's the most fun. The cap is so high up there (at least level 50, as I said. More likely in the 65-85 range) that it doesn't seem to loom at all. Since combat is so easy no matter what your level is (ok, mages are irritating... but once you close...) it can be a pretty relaxing experience to create your character. Do whatever you like knowing that in the end you can NOT lose. It just takes longer to get there.
The whole number crunching brain hemmorage inducing 'multiples' thing is pretty annoying. I just stopped trying to control it and got into my character. Would he, sensing some impending enlightenment, start casting spells like mad in hopes of becoming fantastically smarter any moment? No. I just let it happen and when the level up screen appears I go 'oh... cool' and distribute the points and go on my merry way. The only stats that really matter are personality and endurance anyways.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu May 16, 2002 3:53 pm |
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Gig
Southern Spirit
Joined: 20 Feb 2002
Posts: 3226
Location: NFG Headquarters |
I don't know if I'd say that MW's xp system is the best either. It seems pretty original and it certainly seems right for Morrowind but I'm not sure how well it would scale to other games.
_________________
''Perhaps I'm old and tired but I always think that the chances of finding out what really is going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say hang the sense of it and just keep yourself occupied. Look at me: I design coastlines. I got an award for Norway.''--Slartibartfast |
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Fri May 17, 2002 2:08 pm |
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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
IMO, a good RPG should contain the following elements:
1. Rich history and an alluring, atmospheric, detailed world. A more interactive world would be great.
2. Emphasis on the plot and making the player’s character(s) critical to the plot; the player should be an active participant, not an observer.
3. A good combat system. Because RPGs typically have a lot of combat, having fun combat is essential.
4. Detailed but easy-to-understand character building. It should make sense. It should also be forgiving. Complexity should be put "under-the-hood," making accessibility easy, and tweaking possible for those who wish to customize their character more.
5. Well-written and useful dialogue that applies to the situation and the type of character the player wishes to play; informative, but not oppressive.
6. Decent graphics. Not necessarily the best, but not the worst. Better graphics are a plus, but when I play an RPG, I play for the story and experience, not the graphics.
7. A unique atmosphere and feel to the game. It should never say, “I’m the latest clone of what’s popular.”
_________________
Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
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Fri May 17, 2002 6:24 pm |
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Landan
Guest
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Sorry about the test post. I wanted to comment but didn't want to go through
the registration process for posting rights, if there was one. Shoulda posted
in the test forum, I know. Sorry.
I generally agree with what Namirrha says. But unfortunately I can see
very little of this being applied to Morrowind. I'm very dissappointed in this
game. I'm even more dissappointed that there seem to be no reviewers out there with the balls to give it less that near perfect scores. *sigh*..everyone's a conformist nowadays. Sad.
Morrowind isn't a bad rpg, its just not as good as Daggerfall was. You can
complain about Daggerfall's bugs as a bad point, but Morrowind's high
graphics requirements and shallow gameplay (oohhhh..so so so much is missing from what made Daggerfall a really great rpg imo. And what steams me is that they did all this by HAND!) keep slapping me in the face.
Where are all the rpg interactions? Everything in MW seems so mercenary. You do X, you get X amount. And then only if you're in a guild. What, do guilds have the monopoly on performing quests for people?
Its good to have the editor that comes with MW however. That in itself might help to rectify so many wrongs I see in the game. But of course there's also the Dungeon Siege editor which has mult-character party support and which would be more useful for the type of rpg I'd want to create. And I'm hearing favorable reports about Never Winter Night's editor. Its said to be quite a bit more powerful than MW's editor and it also supports multiplayer gaming as well as solo or head to head efforts and a powerful scripting and c++-like programming language.
I hope to God no other designer attempt to copy or immitate what Bethesda has done with MW. This is *not* the way to go. A graphical hog of an attractive yet empty and lonely gaming world does not a great rpg make. Oh well, I'll shut up now. I guess I'm in the minority here anyways. |
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Sun May 19, 2002 10:23 pm |
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cecirdr
Head Merchant
Joined: 14 May 2002
Posts: 66
Location: Newport, OR USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Landan
I generally agree with what Namirrha says. But unfortunately I can see
very little of this being applied to Morrowind. I'm very dissappointed in this
game. I'm even more dissappointed that there seem to be no reviewers out there with the balls to give it less that near perfect scores. *sigh*..everyone's a conformist nowadays. Sad.
Dissenting opinions may be few and far between, but I'm always glad to hear 'em. I think they're healthy for a forum.
I don't own MW since I use a laptop PC with only a 16mb card. I can't upgrade, so I don't intend to buy Morrowind....at least not the PC version. I *have* been wondering why the video requirements of MW are so steep when Dungeon Siege has a gorgeous world and lists only an 8mb video card as a requirement (though it does recommend a 16mb card).
I, like you, have been watching and waiting for a good editor to come around also. Dungeon Siege is a fantastic engine in search of a good story. Hopefully there will be enough power programmers out there coding some games with the Siege Editor that I'll be able to get some advice on skritting and editing .gas files. There appear to be quite a few people out there who have some great stories to tell, and I'd love to see what they (and I ) can do with these editors. |
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Sun May 19, 2002 10:44 pm |
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