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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
The questions would be, how far on pure training should you go with mana?
-About 90
How many levels can you expect to gain in the course of the game?
-With NotR you should be able to get 35+, but I still don't calculate in all of that, as you don't really need skillpoints when you reach the final chapter. You're already good enough by then.
How many runes are available in the game?
-Available, or realistic to find? I think I usually use about 10-12, but with NotR I know more are available. Basically, you need 1) Light, 2)Summon Demon, 3 and 4) Lesser and Medium Healing(no need for the highest), 5) Rain of Fire or Ring of Death as area effect spell, and the rest are pretty much up to you as you go along. Be sure to have some decent direct damage spells.
How much is left to put in to things that will be irrelevant later, such as fighting skills to put away the early fodder to save scrolls?
- As a mage? Next to nothing in NotR. In the original there was loads, but in NotR you need to save your points. 30% 1h(expert), a bit of strength, permanent mana potion(alchemy), mana, runes and circles is what I usually spend my points on as a mage.
Have they changed lp necessary for runes in NOTR over Gothic 2?
- Yes, depends on Circle. It costs more the higher you get. In fact, the whole cirlce/spell cost is a bit changed.
Good luck, and welcome to the forums!  |
Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:04 am |
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Uriziel
Grand Mage
Joined: 17 May 2002
Posts: 735
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quote:
Originally posted by Maylander
.... 5) Rain of Fire or Ring of Death as area effect spell,
IMHO you need both, not "or". Rof will take out most things except Orc elites, RoD(I call it Wave of Death) flattens any and everything within range. You can find several RoF scrolls, but I know of only one Wave of Death scroll....and ya gotta have the scroll to make the rune.....so you don't want to waste it.
Small hint: Once you have a rune created and you still have the same scroll in inventory....use the scroll instead of the rune. You only use 5 mana for the scroll, but the rune might use all your mana.
quote:
Originally posted by Maylander
.....30% 1h(expert), a bit of strength, permanent mana potion(alchemy), mana, runes and circles is what I usually spend my points on as a mage.
Another option is to forget strength completely and train dex. This does more than you think. You can get some nice dex based swords.....(1 does 100dmg and requires only 50dex.), you can use better bows and xbows throughout the game, your lockpicking is easier, and you can pickpocket better.
I think this is the best way to go. You are spending your LP on something that helps in multiple areas.
quote:
Originally posted by Maylander
Good luck, and welcome to the forums!
Ditto
_________________
Chris: Dad, what's the blow-hole for?
Peter: I'll tell you what it's not for, son. And when I do, you'll understand why I can never go back to Sea World. |
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:42 pm |
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Gotit
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 183
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If you want hard numbers to build a "serious" plan, check this german DB : http://mondgesaenge.de/G2ADB/. There's also the DB for Gothic 2 without NOTR and in english. But it seems that the NOTR DB has no english version. Anyway to get just the numbers Deutch is fine.
That said the strong differences I quoted :
- Learning spells require often a lot more LP. For example all Circle 6 spells cost 20LP.
- Many spells use much more mana, at least for their max power (they have min and max).
The plan to go to 94 Mana with LP only seems a bit too much:
- 115 for learning spells (a reasonable hypothesis : 3*20LP + 2*15LP + 2*10LP + 3*5LP)
- 30 For learn Circles (5LP per Circle)
- 19LP To learn doing potions rising mana.
- 5LP elsewhere.
- 10 For unlock skill
- 174LP For the Mana 94 Plan (24*1LP + 30*2LP + 30*3LP).
SUM : 353LP => 36 Level up dedicated only to mana/Magic. Well you could save some points by reducing the already low number of spell to learn but well at best it will require 33/34 level up and no point for anything else.
What's wrong is that it easily lead you not only to not spend any LP elsewhere but also you have to wait a too long time before prayers and other stuff.
If you want my 2 cents, if that's your first play of NOTR and you want play mage, even if you already played Gothic 2, choose a less strict plan. Based on Mana 64 Plan which save 90LP and makes preying much sooner.
Or even you could go for something more temperate like a Mana 34/49. Even with that modest plan you'll reach 250 Mana eventually with some items but you'll get a much more fun game in half of the game of most of NOTR. Plus if you explore well, you'll probaly be able to reach anyway 300 but with help of items.
Quote that with NOTR mage has no LP malus for learning STR or 2H for example. That tablets and other bonuses could make worthy a long time to have spend some LP there making more than half of the game much more fun.
My poor weak mage (mid of chapter 3 just before circle 3) with some fighting abilities and help with magic:
- Get only 1st level spell, summon goblin skeleton, summon 3 before or at start of a fight against an Orc, give some help and the Orc is beaten hard.
- Raven was just piece of cake with right magic use and eventually a few fighting skills.
- This char can beat up a Draco-Saurus with no flee/run (coward) tactics nor with any smart tactic as fight it in water or from a long range position.
- But the key is that the game DOESN'T REQUIRE AT ALL that I do alone fight as tough at this point of the game. That what make great the too chort chapter 2, you are in enemy teritory and if you can kill everything you spoil yourself most of the fun. Chapter 3 works less well in this way plus at this points of the game the back mages are much less a danger at this point of the game, but they are still tough and this help a bit the mood.
- All in all NOTR is not a destroy everything game so no need to complain if you can't destroy everything arround the map without a lot sweet and pain. The game wasn't design for that and difficulty increased to lower this temptation. |
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:15 pm |
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Burress
Village Dweller
Joined: 18 Dec 2005
Posts: 2
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I appreciate all the replys, thank you all for your advice. It seems like a great challenge of resource-management and denying yourself the frills to succeed. I really can't imagine starting this game from scratch knowledge without having beaten the regular gothic 2. Something about so many reloads that starts to mess with your mind, frustration building because unlike many games with immediate goals and rewards it seems the path to success here is a very far-sighted and patient approach accumalating advantages that won't come in to fruition for 20-30 hours. Its a different kind of game and its frustration factor is a worthwhile learning experience in itself.
And thanks again for the welcome to forum.  |
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:09 am |
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Gotit
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 183
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Welcome, take my suggestions with care as I don't have much practice in the game. 
About my previous post, I confused levels for circles and chapters, the char was just before Circle 4 and at the end of chapter 3.
I confirm that for chapter 4, even if the game is in general tough, it doesn't require you beat alone very strong monsters. Once more and even more than before you can get various help there and there, and you never lost a single experience point plus the challenge could be still high but doable.
20h-30h? Well well, this game cumulate for you the number of hours played for a saved game, I won't mention my numbers. |
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:09 am |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
Aye, NotR is definetly for experts. It's a suicide to start with NotR, without having completed G2 first.
Also, I'd still say that you only need 1 high end area effect spell. Personally I only get Rain of Fire, as it follows you when you move(so you can drink a speed potion, smack on RoF, and then run half a mile and kill everything in your path). This works against even the toughest opponents, because you'll run far away from them and be able to re-cast RoF before they reach you. It is also a lot more effective than any other way of killing in Gothic as you cover so much ground in so little time. I clear out entire areas like this. |
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:02 pm |
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migwell
Village Dweller
Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Posts: 15
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Funny Rain of Fire trick I must try. The mage thing is pretty damn difficult to manage. When I saw my first seeker, I had to try and try to find a way to beat the bastard. and you know how many of them you must face. Finally I used Ice Lance scrolls and then got Ice Lance as a rune, but it ate up so much mana to kill one seeker that I ran out of potions.
I really think that the forging 'exploit' is pretty necessary for a mage, since you are constantly replenishing expensive mana potions after every battle if you can find someone selling any.. I have spent a lot of time running away.
Now I'm starting Chapter 4 with about 250 mana (only trained 55) and using Holy Arrow on Orc Warriors because it is a cheap mana hit (10 points) but hits 100 damage and takes out the orc in 4 shots. Unfortunately, it does little more than a mosquito bite to Elites, and I have to find something to take them out. Plus it does nothing to the ever present Wargs, which are kicking my butt. Tough path the Mage must tread. |
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:37 pm |
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Uriziel
Grand Mage
Joined: 17 May 2002
Posts: 735
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quote:
Originally posted by migwell
Funny Rain of Fire trick I must try. The mage thing is pretty damn difficult to manage. When I saw my first seeker, I had to try and try to find a way to beat the bastard. and you know how many of them you must face. Finally I used Ice Lance scrolls and then got Ice Lance as a rune, but it ate up so much mana to kill one seeker that I ran out of potions.
I really think that the forging 'exploit' is pretty necessary for a mage, since you are constantly replenishing expensive mana potions after every battle if you can find someone selling any.. I have spent a lot of time running away.
Now I'm starting Chapter 4 with about 250 mana (only trained 55) and using Holy Arrow on Orc Warriors because it is a cheap mana hit (10 points) but hits 100 damage and takes out the orc in 4 shots. Unfortunately, it does little more than a mosquito bite to Elites, and I have to find something to take them out. Plus it does nothing to the ever present Wargs, which are kicking my butt. Tough path the Mage must tread.
Ummmm, how are you using Holy Arrow as a mage? That is a Paladin rune.
_________________
Chris: Dad, what's the blow-hole for?
Peter: I'll tell you what it's not for, son. And when I do, you'll understand why I can never go back to Sea World. |
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Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:15 am |
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migwell
Village Dweller
Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Posts: 15
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How am I using it? I equip it and fire it off...
I thought that this was strange also, but it works. I was a little P.O.'ed that the paladin magic was so much more 'cost effective' than the Mage stuff, which uses enormous amounts of mana. Holy Arrow seems to work great against Orc Warriors but basically is worthless against much else except Lizardmen.
Won't take out animals for example. Nothing like having to get to your inventory to drink more mana potions while you are being swarmed by snappers. Or taking those precious seconds (that seem like hours) to equip a sword to finish something off after your mana runs out just before you get the kill. |
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Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:37 pm |
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Gotit
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 183
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I'd like to have also found this paladin rune. Myself I found Light paladin rune, arg so cool... and useless! (torch are much better). I confirm that even if it's a paladin rune, a mage could handle it.
For the seekers, yes lance of fire, and for many of them they don't move and you can place you out of their range and cast on them Ice Lance with no risk.
About skip them:
- The first you met you can skip it by going out of the area by the mountains and doing a high jump in water in the lac near Xardas tower. And otherwise the more funny is to find all pathes to sneak to avoid them.
- Also a little later, you'll hardly avoid a quest to get an item allowing to skip them all. Then you can decide to pick up the fight or not.
Myself I ended to just got my Typhoon staff and beat them hard... they are so iritating with all their vain speach! Don't ask me if I am playing a mage, in theory yes. 
One trick for mage figthting, once you have started cast healing you can chain very fast with other healing. So when health start be a bit low, 3 or 4 lost cost heal and get back fight. Otherwise if they cast a nasty spell like rain of fire just rush out of the storm before coming back.
But well from your funny description I can bet that we didn't palyed it the same at all, I had probably 26 levels when I met my first seeker and more than 550 life, I bet your char is much more young. |
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Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:46 pm |
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