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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
I'm curious how this works. I've never found a description of Keen anywhere. And the description of Improved Critical (IC)says it doubles the range.
Now, a Great Axe has 20-20/x3. What would the range be if it had Keen, IC, or Keen + IC?
A Long Sword has 19-20/x2. What would the range be if it had Keen, IC, or Keen + IC?
A Rapier has 18-20/x2. What would the range be if it had Keen, IC, or Keen + IC?
Oh and while we are on the topic of criticals, how does the Strong Critical (or was it Powerful Critical) enhancement work? Is this damage added to a critical hit? If so, seems like a waste of everyone's time. Most values associated with this stat are 1-3 and considering that my char at level 3 hit a 74 point critical, it would seem kindda silly to add 1 point to that.
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Tue Jul 23, 2002 2:06 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
| Re: Keen + Improved Critical |
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quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
I'm curious how this works. I've never found a description of Keen anywhere. And the description of Improved Critical (IC)says it doubles the range.
Now, a Great Axe has 20-20/x3. What would the range be if it had Keen, IC, or Keen + IC?
A Long Sword has 19-20/x2. What would the range be if it had Keen, IC, or Keen + IC?
A Rapier has 18-20/x2. What would the range be if it had Keen, IC, or Keen + IC?
Oh and while we are on the topic of criticals, how does the Strong Critical (or was it Powerful Critical) enhancement work? Is this damage added to a critical hit? If so, seems like a waste of everyone's time. Most values associated with this stat are 1-3 and considering that my char at level 3 hit a 74 point critical, it would seem kindda silly to add 1 point to that.
For rapier keen or improved critical 15-20/x2
for rapier with keen and improved 12-20/x2!!!
for long swd keen or improved 17-20/x2
for long swd keen and improved 15-20/x2
For the Great Axe I *assume* it would be
keen or improved 19-20/x3
keen and improved 18-20/x3
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Tue Jul 23, 2002 2:33 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Correct. And here's the math 
Base Critical: This is the base critical range. 18-20 for a rapier (3 chances in 20). 19-20 for some other weapons (2). 20 for still others (1).
Keen doubles this ORIGINAL number.
Improved critical doubles this original number.
All calculations are based on the BASE critical number and ADD together, not multiply.
So... rapier (3) gets another 3 added if you have one modification. That's 15-20. If you possessed both then you would add another 3. Which means it now criticals on a 12-20. There is much... death.
As for the 'powerful critical' feature to the weapon... I've never seen it. It might simply be +1 damage... but it might be +1 to the threat range or even +1 multiple to critical damage... ie: a rapier might do a critical of x3 instead of x2.
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Tue Jul 23, 2002 2:51 pm |
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Kendrik
Thin Blue Line
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 550
Location: England |
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
Correct. And here's the math
Base Critical: This is the base critical range. 18-20 for a rapier (3 chances in 20). 19-20 for some other weapons (2). 20 for still others (1).
Keen doubles this ORIGINAL number.
Improved critical doubles this original number.
All calculations are based on the BASE critical number and ADD together, not multiply.
So... rapier (3) gets another 3 added if you have one modification. That's 15-20. If you possessed both then you would add another 3. Which means it now criticals on a 12-20. There is much... death.
As for the 'powerful critical' feature to the weapon... I've never seen it. It might simply be +1 damage... but it might be +1 to the threat range or even +1 multiple to critical damage... ie: a rapier might do a critical of x3 instead of x2.
Like EveryhtingXen said - any double doubles in D&D are treated as triples (not quadruples). The normal example used is a longsword which has a crit range of 2 (i.e 19 - 20 required) but when it's a keen weapon it goes to a range of 4 (i.e 17-20). But with improved crit it goes to a range of 6 (i.e 15-20) instead of 8.
Hmm I think I just repeated what EX said but I used the word triple 
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Wed Jul 24, 2002 12:14 am |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
I should correct myself, the proper attribute is called Mighty Criticals. It ranges from 1-8 single values and 1d3(?), 1d4,..., 1d8, 2d4. I could be wrong on the higher end of the numbers, but I can't fire up the toolkit now since I'm not in my admin account.
What you said about adding to multiplier wouldn't make sense really. After all, can you imagine a rapier with crits 12-20/x10? That would be just silly. It might makes sense that it would add to the range though.
BTW, why the hell don't they have documentation for this stuff? What the hell is the point of putting all these neat stats on my weapon if we have no way of knowing what those stats do???
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Wed Jul 24, 2002 12:09 pm |
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Kendrik
Thin Blue Line
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 550
Location: England |
quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
BTW, why the hell don't they have documentation for this stuff? What the hell is the point of putting all these neat stats on my weapon if we have no way of knowing what those stats do???
Welcome to the world of Wizards of the Coast. They like to assume that you already know about D&D or if you really want to understand all the things in NWN, then you would be willing to buy the D&D 3E Players Handbook and Dungeon Masters Guide. Which nets WotC another £25. Or alternatively just ask those of us that have the books and then you don't need to buy all the expansion books either
To be fair this isn't just a WotC thing. Most PnP roleplay games come with mutliple addon books. Most are classed as optional but many are essential to the game (Shadowrun anyone?). Ho hum I suppose they are running businesses after all and I'm just too cynical.
The Keen and IC skills work as mentioned as for Mighty Critical - I'm not sure. I can't find it in either the PHB or the DMG. It may be in the Forgotten Realms Handbook which I have leant to a friend. I would suggest that it increases the damage multiplier (after the Crit range). So a Keen Longsword with Improved and Mighty Crits should be 15-20/x3. This is just a suggestion and when I get my book back I'll see if it's in there.
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"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true."
JAMES BRANCH CABELL
~Member of The Nonflamers' Guild~
~~Champion of the (Unofficial) RPGdot Text Signature Contest 2002~~ |
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Wed Jul 24, 2002 12:56 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Kendrik
Most PnP roleplay games come with mutliple addon books. Most are classed as optional but many are essential to the game (Shadowrun anyone?).
Yeah, but I didn't buy a PnP roleplay game. I bought a piece of software. For a lot of money too.  I would much rather they tell me what attributes on my weapons do than print 3 pages of spell icons, of which many are actually wrong.
--Edit--
Did I say 3? Make that 9!!!
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Thu Jul 25, 2002 1:11 am |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
@Patch, PnP = pen & paper, original roleplaying games with only rulebooks and you own imagination.
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Thu Jul 25, 2002 10:55 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Pen and Paper still has the best graphics and sound. Best of all... it's free to upgrade the hardware responsible for handling them. 
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"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
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Thu Jul 25, 2002 9:52 pm |
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Kendrik
Thin Blue Line
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 550
Location: England |
quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
quote:
Originally posted by Kendrik
Most PnP roleplay games come with mutliple addon books. Most are classed as optional but many are essential to the game (Shadowrun anyone?).
Yeah, but I didn't buy a PnP roleplay game. I bought a piece of software. For a lot of money too. I would much rather they tell me what attributes on my weapons do than print 3 pages of spell icons, of which many are actually wrong.
--Edit--
Did I say 3? Make that 9!!!
I entirely agree MoonDragon - that was the point I was making. WotC (and other PnP produces) live with this marketing mentality that people will buy everything related to the game. It is wrong but I suspect it won't change.
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"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true."
JAMES BRANCH CABELL
~Member of The Nonflamers' Guild~
~~Champion of the (Unofficial) RPGdot Text Signature Contest 2002~~ |
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Fri Jul 26, 2002 1:32 pm |
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ffbj
High Emperor
Joined: 05 Feb 2002
Posts: 489
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There is a mention of the attributes of a keen weapon. (At this moment I can't remember where). Under the description of Improved Critical on page 91. |
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 3:06 am |
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ffbj
High Emperor
Joined: 05 Feb 2002
Posts: 489
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Yes, there are many errors in the book. Here's one. page 156 the Ranger spell: resist elements, is in the wrong place. Maybe we should compile a list. |
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 3:10 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Since WoTC is still compiling errors from the Players Hand Book and Dungeon Master's Guide as well as every other sourcebook for pen and paper D&D, I wouldn't take anything in the manual as infallible... 
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
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=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 6:12 am |
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