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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Over the weekend I picked up a book called Presidential Leadership. I'm a big history buff and this book looked interesting. Basically, it's a ranking of the Presidents of the U.S. from best to worst and highlights the important things each President has done. I've always had my own top ten Presidents that I admire the most, whom I thought contributed the most to this country. But I'm wondering who my fellow Americans consider the top ten Presidents who have ever served the U.S.
Or, if you are not from the U.S., but have studied U.S. history, I'd be interested in your comments as well.
This is not a political discussion. This is a historical discussion. I want to hear your list of who you think are the best Presidents and why you think they should be in your top ten. This is merely to satisfy my own curiosity. I want to see how close people get to the top ten in the book.
My top ten:
1. Abraham Lincoln: Held the Union together at it's darkest hour (Civil War). Put forth the Emancipation Proclamation which freed the slaves. He worked hard to help the country mend after the ravages of the war (I would have loved to see what he could have accomplished had he not been assassinated). There is no denying the incredible contribution he made.
2. George Washington: This man defined what a President should be. A civil servant. After the Revolutionary War, many wanted to make him king of America. But the man loved freedom and wanted to see the former colonies rule themselves. He was insturmental in lending credibility to creating the government that serves us today. He set the presidence that a President should only serve two terms in office (Only FDR has served more). He prompted good government and good finances.
3. Franklin D. Roosevelt: He shepherded the nation through the Great Depression and World War II. While I may disagree with some of his domestic policies, I still think he was one of our best Presidents. Veiwed objectively, many of his policies during the Depression were near-failures. Although some of the changes to the Federal Reserve and tossing out the gold standard were good ideas. He took his role as commander-in-chief seriously during the war (Which is always a good thing in my opinion). He was also highly optimistic which helped in bolstering the American public.
4. Ronald Reagan: I loved this guy. He made me proud to be an American when I was a kid. He dragged us out of the rut we were stuck in from the 70s, both economic and emotional. His infectious optimism about the U.S. was inspiring. In some ways he was like FDR, loved by his party and grudgingly admired by the opposition. He played down big government and encouraged Americans to rely on their own ingenuity to achieve success. His foriegn policy went against the grain and it paid off. Big time.
5. Theodore Roosevelt: Bully! Another one of my favorite Presidents. He was definately one of the more colorful ones. While he was stubborn, impatient, lacked compassion and refered to political opponents as cowards, at the same time he was incorruptible, resolute, just and a visionary. His creation of national parks, forests and monuments has preserved some of the U.S.' most stunning scenery. He too was an inspiring President who believed in the U.S. He also worked to bring back the balance between the legislative and executives branches. He fought against party bosses who valued political privileges more than just government. He worked to break up trusts and pushed through the Federal Food and Drugs Act. He was also just as aggresive in his foriegn policy. His policies contributed greatly to America stepping onto the world stage as both a diplomatic and military power.
Kind of obvious I've read several books on his life, eh? 
6. Thomas Jefferson: Another one of the U.S.' founding fathers and the author of the Declaration of Independance. He prompted state's rights, freedom of speech, and had an almost severe allergic reaction to anything having to do with a monarchy. He secured the Louisiana Purchase which expanded the U.S. to the Rocky Mountains for a mere $15 million. France is smacking their heads over that one probably. 
7. Andrew Jackson: He moved the country more from a Republic to a Democracy. He made it clear that he supported the Union and quailed the rumblings for a time that would eventually grow into the Civil War. He was a President of the people and railed against old school politics. He was probably the first President to really usher in reform and make it a central part of his campaign. Granted, some of his reforms weren't very good for the economy (like vetoing the charter for the second Bank of the United States, d'oh), but nobody is perfect.
8. Harry Truman: Effectively ending the conflict with Japan in World War II. Had we invaded, it would have been a blood bath on both sides and far more lives would have been wasted in the conflict than were effected by the dropping of the atomic bomb. It was a decision I sure as heck don't envy, but in the end, it was the right one. A lot of people second guess the decision, but at the time, Truman didn't see any other realistic options. He put into place the "Containment" policy against the Soviet Union that would dicate U.S. policy for years to come. He helped with the formation of NATO, which was aimed at discouraging an attack by the Soviet Union on the non-Communist nations of Western Europe. He also worked on improving civil rights and attacking racial discrimination.
9. Dwight D. Eisenhower: He was President during a time of great economical expansion. The literal boom after World War II. He had to deal with several problems however. The Korean War, the threat of Soviet expansion, helping maintain stability in Europe after the beating it took during the war, budget deficits, and McCarthyism which was a divisive force even in his own administration. However, after his experience as Commander of the Allied forces, he was prepared to tackle these problems. Sadly, he didn't create perfect solutions to all of those problems. For instance, the problems with North and South Korea are still with us today. Ike pretty much considered preserving the peace, stopping aggression, and maintaining stability to be his primary concern (See his famous Domino effect speech). Overall his legacy is one of peace, integrity, sound government, and prosperity.
My grandpa disagrees with me, but then, I like Ike! 
10. Woodrow Wilson: His Presidency saw a lot of important changes. The creation of the Federal Reserve, lowering of tariffs, instituted the first regular White House press conferences and ended the tradition of Presidents not addressing Congress in person. He also dragged his party away from it's (at the time) isolationist tendancies. He lead America in joining the side of the Allies in World War I after winning re-election. A rather swift about-face from his policy in his first term and his campaign theme (Hehe). He was by far one of the most interventionist Presidents this country has seen. I wasn't thrilled with his League of Nations ideas though.
If you've read this entire post, then you get a gold star!
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Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:31 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
An interesting list, Val.
I have to say your summaries are excellent snapshots of the gents.
I agree with your top 4, in order. I'd move Jefferson and Truman up, although I think Teddy would still place top 10. I expect most people will put JFK on the list. While I think history has given him a "selective legacy" because of the shooting, there's no denying he kept the country mosty in one piece during the tumultuous civil rights era. His excellent handling of the Cuban missle crisis is probably offset by the Bay of Pigs fiasco.
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Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:48 am |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
Poor Nixon is not on the list  ....
Those listed presidents are generally regarded as notable US presidents in many academic books. Abraham Lincoln is widely accepted as good president although some writings tried to uncover and discuss his flaws. Of course, he did makes mistakes, as all human...
i think JFK should on the list. He made a right decision and eventually avoided nuclear war, when many of his military officials and cabinet members wanted to attack the nuclear missile sites at Cuba. He supported the end of racial discrimination (freedom and equality), when some of his fellow Americans hated other races and wanted racial segregation in public schools, restaurants, movie theathers, buses, etc. He asked Congress approval for 22 millions for Apollo Project, so that US lead the way in space exploration. He believe in non-military power to improve the world, so the creation of Peace Corps. He pushed for Partial Test Ban Treaty to limits atomic testing in the atmosphere with Britain and USSR. He combat communism by sending aid to Latin America, although he did sent military advisers and US troops to South Vietnam, a conflict that later ended badly for US.
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Tue Oct 19, 2004 8:43 am |
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vaticide
Put food in here
Joined: 21 Feb 2002
Posts: 1122
Location: One step behind a toddler bent on destruction. |
I would probably add U. S. Grant to the list, the way he handled the reconstruction probably saved our nation.
There are a few up there I might not have in the top 10, but overall, the list isn't bad. I'd probably shift the list around somewhat, but that is splitting hairs.
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Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:38 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
I'm not sure who I'd take off the list, but I'd add JFK. The space race, cuban missile crisis, the civil rights movement ... he had a lot going on, and while some may question his decisions, his ability to motivate and LEAD is unquestionable.
I'd move Geo Washington to the head of the list. Any one who doesn't want the job deserves top ranking *grin*
Eisenhower? Hmmm. I like your logic for putting him on the list though. Jefferson I also recall with some dislike ... but I can't deny he did a pretty good job - I just think Hamilton would've been better *grin*
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Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:39 pm |
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Bartacus
Il Buono
Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 4706
Location: Belgium Flemmish part |
Although I do not know much of the US history of presidents, I would only change one thing. Delete Reagan and change it into JFK. Reagan was good as Tarzan, but simply not as a president. Some people call Bush (this one, bot the senior) a dumb ass. I wonder how those people feel about Ragan's intelligence. I don't think he has ever governed the country, but his henchmen (appropiate therm?) did in his place.
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Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:59 pm |
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Secret Agent Lawanda
The last thing you see...
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 1041
Location: World of Darkness (LA) |
lol, so pronouces the guy who hasn't studied U.S. history. Try reading a biography about the guy's life before you call him an idiot.
That's a pretty good list Val. I'm with Lintra though on bumping up Washington. I'd probably drop Wilson and add JFK. Then drop Jefferson a slot or two.
Then again, I'm tempted to add Garfield since he didn't do anything! There's an example more politicians could follow! ;p
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Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:17 pm |
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Bartacus
Il Buono
Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 4706
Location: Belgium Flemmish part |
SAL, I'm long enough on this earth to know Reagan just as well as anyone who got it teached in US history. It's just that 7 to ten have no meaning for me. The other ones are known in other parts of the world as well. (A lot from movies and off course 'the Simpsons', but even tehn they have earned there place in world history.) I acknowledge the fact that Reagan was an important figure, but I thought this was a list of good leadership. I do not see the man as a good leader.
And yes, I do know that almost 80% of the US public will dissagree with me, but an opinion was asked and I liked to give mine.
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Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:28 pm |
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Secret Agent Lawanda
The last thing you see...
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 1041
Location: World of Darkness (LA) |
I doubt the first part of your statement, but whatever. *shrugs*
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Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:32 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
I think SAL was referring to your "Tarzan" line. Tarzan was played by Johnny Weismueller (sp?), not our beloved Ron-bo.
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RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:26 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
I would take FDR off the list, as well as Truman. They gave safe harbor to Soviet Spies in the government. Find me one history book printed after 95 that tells the truth about the Verona Project unclasified and released in 95 and proves beyong question, beyond doubt, and as fact that Hiss and every other victom of what is falsley credited to "McCarthyism" was right. Rosenburg gave atomic information to the USSR as a soviet spy.
For some odd reason Stalin is painted as nice Old Uncle Joe in the history books, he is one of the most brutal totolitarian savages mass-murderers that ever graced the earth, along with Mao. Who both FDR and Truman liked and simpithized with.
FDR and Truman left America wide open for a ccommunist coupe. Say what you will, but over throwing the American government cannot be seen as patriotic. They harbored treasonous spies. Harvard elitist richy rich scum.
No one knows the slightest facts about McCrathy yet everyone hates him. Besides JFK and Bobby Kennedy, who loved and defended him. Oh yeah, alnost every working American loved McCarthy, him having the vast support of the majority. It seems like Americans didn't want Soviet spies in their government.
Seeing as I can't stand Mass Murderers or mass murderer supporters and sympathizers, I also detest the fact that my country dropped two atomic bombs on Japan. I personaly would not have cheered. I would have cheered when Mao and stalin died, just as I cheered when Sadam was captured.
The world needs a big push towards sanity. If you sympathize or support a mass-murderer you are to be spit on and despized by civilized folk. Lets revuew every scenario where mass-murder is A-Okay. Hmmm. I came up with never. Lets come up with every scenario where it is A-Okay for a government to give safe harbor and shelter abd vigoroulsy defend spies for a hostile governement whose leader is one of the biggest mass murderers of all time. Hmmmm. I came up with never for that one also.
Why leave LBJ out. He championed civil rights. Title 7 was passed under him. And he didn't start Vietnam, JFK inhereted it from the French. LBJ was a good president that did alot.
Look at Nixons policies, the end of Vietnam, EPA, clean water and air act, etc. It goes on and on.
Both LBJ and Nixon were great leaders that passed great policies. FDR and Truman brought America dangerously close to being part of Stalin's and Mao's empire of slavery and murder. If thats good leadership then you might as well call B. Arnold a great American.
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Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:56 am |
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Bartacus
Il Buono
Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 4706
Location: Belgium Flemmish part |
quote:
Originally posted by dteowner
I think SAL was referring to your "Tarzan" line. Tarzan was played by Johnny Weismueller (sp?), not our beloved Ron-bo.
OK, all I know for sure is that he was an actor before, but I thought he played Tarzan too a few times? Can someone perhaps look into the movies R.R. played in?
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Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:14 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
59 movies in total link here. I also believe he was in a TV series, but I might be mistaken about that. Death Valley or somesuch.
Killers, The (1964) .... Jack Browning
... aka Ernest Hemingway's The Killers (1964) (USA: promotional title)
Young Doctors, The (1961) (voice) .... Narrator
Hellcats of the Navy (1957) .... Cmdr. Casey Abbott (Captain, USS Starfish)
Tennessee's Partner (1955) .... Cowpoke
Cattle Queen of Montana (1955) .... Farrell
Prisoner of War (1954) .... Webb Sloane
Law and Order (1953) .... Frame Johnson
Tropic Zone (1953) .... Dan McCloud
She's Working Her Way Through College (1952) .... Prof. John Palmer
Winning Team, The (1952) .... Grover Cleveland Alexander
Hong Kong (1952) .... Jeff Williams
... aka Bombs Over China (1962) (USA: reissue title)
Big Truth, The (1951) .... Host/Narrator
Bedtime for Bonzo (1951) .... Prof. Peter Boyd
Last Outpost, The (1951) .... Capt. Vance Britten
... aka Cavalry Charge (1962) (USA: reissue title)
Storm Warning (1951) .... Burt Rainey
Louisa (1950) .... Hal Norton
Hasty Heart, The (1949) .... Yank
Girl from Jones Beach, The (1949) .... Bob Randolph (Robert Venerik)
Night Unto Night (1949) .... John Galen
John Loves Mary (1949) .... John Lawrence
Voice of the Turtle, The (1947) .... Sergeant Bill Page
... aka One for the Book (1947) (USA: reissue title)
That Hagen Girl (1947) .... Tom Bates
Stallion Road (1947) .... Larry Hanrahan
Cadet Classification (1943) .... Narrator
For God and Country (1943) .... Father Michael O'Keefe
This Is the Army (1943) (as Lt. Ronald Reagan) .... Johnny Jones
Desperate Journey (1942) .... Flying Officer Johnny Hammond
Juke Girl (1942) .... Steve Talbot
Kings Row (1942) .... Drake McHugh
Nine Lives Are Not Enough (1941) .... Matt Sawyer
International Squadron (1941) .... Jimmy Grant
Million Dollar Baby (1941) .... Peter 'Pete' Rowan
Bad Man, The (1941) .... Gilbert 'Gil' Jones
... aka Two-Gun Cupid (1941) (UK)
Santa Fe Trail (1940) .... George Armstrong Custer
Tugboat Annie Sails Again (1940) .... Eddie Kent
Knute Rockne All American (1940) .... George 'The Gipper' Gipp
... aka Modern Hero, A (1940) (UK)
Murder in the Air (1940) .... Brass Bancroft, aka Steve Swenko and Steve Coe
Angel from Texas, An (1940) .... Marty Allen
Brother Rat and a Baby (1940) .... Dan Crawford
... aka Baby Be Good (1940) (UK)
Smashing the Money Ring (1939) .... Lt. 'Brass' Bancroft
... aka Queer Money (1939)
Angels Wash Their Faces, The (1939) .... Deputy Dist. Atty. Patrick 'Pat' Remson
... aka Angels Wash Their Faces (1939) (USA)
Hell's Kitchen (1939) .... Jim Donohue
Naughty But Nice (1939) .... Ed 'Eddie' Clark
Code of the Secret Service (1939) .... Lt. 'Brass' Bancroft
Dark Victory (1939) .... Alec Hamm
Secret Service of the Air (1939) .... Lieutenant 'Brass' Bancroft
Going Places (1938) .... Jack Withering
Brother Rat (1938) .... Dan Crawford
Girls on Probation (1938) .... Neil Dillon
Boy Meets Girl (1938) .... Announcer
Amazing Dr. Clitterhouse, The (1938) (voice) (uncredited) .... Radio Announcer
Cowboy from Brooklyn (1938) .... Pat Dunn
... aka Romance and Rhythm (1938) (UK)
Accidents Will Happen (1938) .... Eric Gregg
Swing Your Lady (1938) .... Jack Miller
Hollywood Hotel (1937) (uncredited) .... Radio anouncer
Submarine D-1 (1937) (scenes deleted) .... Paul, One of Ann's Suitors
Sergeant Murphy (1937) .... Pvt. Dennis Riley
Love Is on the Air (1937) ....
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Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:23 pm |
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Bartacus
Il Buono
Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 4706
Location: Belgium Flemmish part |
Thank you Lintra, and as I see there's no Tarzan movie.(unless my eyes decive me.) My appologies to all who felt offended by the Tarzan remark. I still stand by my pov though. RR is IMO simply not a good leader. More of a puppet.
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Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:40 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
Bart,
Please don't take this the wrong way, I am really curious. I have two questions:
1. A puppet of whom?
2. From what source/sources did you get that opinion?
I am asking out of true curiosity ... I'll let you know why after you answer.
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Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:47 pm |
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