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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
quote:
Originally posted by Val
@Rep: That's cold. It's also inappropriate. If anything, the Spanish people need our support more now than ever.
While I agree with the second thought, I'm not certain what was so inappropriate about his comments. Compare the US reaction to a much greater loss (as inhuman as it is to quantify tragedy) to the Spainish reaction. The US sought (and fought) to bring justice to the terrorists and their supporters. The Spanish people elected leadership for the singular purpose of appeasement (the Socialists were well behind in the polls until this event) to reduce their likelihood of being a target in the future.
Whether you use the word "cowardly" or not, the evidence clearly supports an opinion that could be found in the same thesaurus entry. Hardly inappropriate, nor does it preclude our sympathies.
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Mon Mar 15, 2004 9:53 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
As Samhain put it, this isn't the place to be nailing them to the wall. The only people who won in this incident are the terrorists.
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Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:00 pm |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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quote:
Originally posted by The Republican
Im sorry, but I believe the Spanish are cowards now. Since they elected the Socalists Workers Party. A people who supports a party that ideals in appesing terrorists and leaving them alone is such cowardice.
A party that doesn't seek needless wars are appeasing terrorists? The Socialist Workers Party want to pull out of Iraq, which has nothing to do with terrorists (they wanted to do that way before this incident). But it's easy to forget such things when you're screaming for blood, right?
quote:
Originally posted by Lintra
No. To me there is no motive here. Just senseless violence for the sake of violence. I hate the part of me wants to agree that the perps should be hunted down like the enemies of civilization that they are, and I am glad I do not have to make that call, since I see no other solution.
I am just so sorry for victims, their families and friends.
No motive? How 'bout the fact that Spain was one of the biggest supporters of the US shedding blood in the middle east (even though 90% of the population were against a war in Iraq)? Or how about the theories that they were islamic fundamentalists supporting ETA? Or the fact that Al Qaeda had targeted Spain along with the US and Italy some time ago?
As for believing it's Al Qaeda, it still looks doubtful. The tape has seemingly nothing credible to it.
quote:
Originally posted by dteowner
The Spanish people elected leadership for the singular purpose of appeasement (the Socialists were well behind in the polls until this event) to reduce their likelihood of being a target in the future.
Really? I thought it was in reaction to how badly the goverment handling the situation (immidiately trying to blame ETA)? Or was it because the majority of Spain's population were against the war to begin with? There are so many reasons to pick!
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Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
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Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:18 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
quote:
Originally posted by Val
As Samhain put it, this isn't the place to be nailing them to the wall. The only people who won in this incident are the terrorists.
Isn't that exactly the point? Not only did the terrorists "win" by the action ("win" in the same sentence as that action is just plain wrong, doncha think), but they "won" again when the Spanish people were effectively terrorized into changing their government.
My apologies if this thread is supposed to be strictly for expressions of sympathy. Feel free to split this into a new thread about the ramifications of the event if you like.
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Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:46 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
quote:
Originally posted by Hexy
quote:
Originally posted by dteowner
]
The Spanish people elected leadership for the singular purpose of appeasement (the Socialists were well behind in the polls until this event) to reduce their likelihood of being a target in the future.
Really? I thought it was in reaction to how badly the goverment handling the situation (immidiately trying to blame ETA)? Or was it because the majority of Spain's population were against the war to begin with? There are so many reasons to pick!
If the people of Spain were so unhappy with the Iraq policies of the current leadership, why were they comfortably leading in the polls prior to the bombing? Stick to the facts, Hexy.
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Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:50 pm |
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Myrthos
Spoiler of All Fun
Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 1926
Location: Holland |
It's time to get those stones out again. Let's not wait until what the newly elected Spanish government does, but judge and find them guilty now. Being a socialist party should be enough evidence for that.
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Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:45 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by The Republican
Im sorry, but I believe the Spanish are cowards now. Since they elected the Socalists Workers Party. A people who supports a party that ideals in appesing terrorists and leaving them alone is such cowardice.
It seems you have a mistaken idea about the meaning of 'democracy'. If the Spanish people voted for a change of government it´s their own decision. What you think about this is completely irrelevant.
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Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:18 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
Strangely enough, this thread is made up of opinions. Which means that your post is every bit as irrelevant (or relevant  ) as Rep's.
Myrthos- I'm not sure Rep's bashing the Socialist party so much as their stance on this issue. Other than their stand on Iraq and terror in general (which is the only issue I've commented on to this point), I know next to nothing about their platform. They may be excellent leaders overall, but their position on this one issue stinks (IMO, of course).
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RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:21 am |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
quote:
Originally posted by dteowner
Strangely enough, this thread is made up of opinions. Which means that your post is every bit as irrelevant (or relevant ) as Rep's....
But there are educated & uneducated opinions, opinions that largely based on facts, emotional opinions, preconception & unconciously biased opinions, opinions that come from experiences vs no experience, etc....
While opinions from a scholar or expert are not the ultimate truth, at least it's educated opinions, and much better than my grandma's opinions regarding these issue...
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Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:27 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
Since there are very few indisputable facts on this tragedy at this time, I don't see where any of us can claim the "educated high ground". Which also implies that nobody is in a position to dismiss another's opinion as irrelevant...
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Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:39 am |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
Myrthos, albeit taken out of context-
quote:
It's time to get those stones out again...
I believe Hell itself has actually gotten a few degress cooler this evening, because I totally agree with Myrthos and Gorath. What's wrong with keeping things as condolences and maybe a little sympathy, or elevation for some people who just got blindly sucker-punched? More facts about the bombings? Why not. No sniping from the peanut gallery? Cant do that now can we, lol 
If these people have made a sorry political position, they'll know all in due time.Why dont you people just chill and say some nice or informative things for once, at least in this thread, sheesh
Val, dont stop the deleting now!
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“Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain |
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Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:21 am |
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aldreth
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Posts: 26
Location: Washington |
exactly 2.5 years to the day, since 9/11. Pretty obvious to me that it was Al Qaeda
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Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:39 am |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
Who says violence isn't the answer? Or that violence doesn't solve problems? My mother was so wrong.
My sinsere condolences to the Spaniards who lost loved ones or friends, and I hope the healing (of injured people and Spain as a whole) is short lived. ETA or Al Qaeda, an atrocity is an atrocity, and a cowardly act is a cowardly act. The people voted and the people's voice was heard. If the majority of people don't want troops in Iraq I say bring them home. Amsterdam (Holland of course, but I only have experience with Amsterdam) I hear is pretty Socialist, but it seemed a lot more free than America when I visited. Whenever I think of Spain I picture red anyways, I wish Spain and its new party all the best and hope it becomes more like the paradise Amsterdam is (or seems like to tourists).
And who knows, if Kerry gets elected and pulls the troops out of Iraq, maybe I can wiessel my way in as Iraq's new dictator/tyrant. I, of course, would make an excellent tyrant that leads Iraq in new and improved directions of government sponsored humanity crimes.
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Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:30 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
A few more facts:
-Spanish police has arrested 3 of 6 Maroccans which presumable are known as Al Quada members. A few train travellers has recognized the arrested in the train area prior to the terror. The Spanish police says that more facts points to that the arrested are guilty.
-UN says it is highly unusual to name the terrorist so quickly after a terror action
-On the tape from Al quada???
Quote:
We take the responisibility for the Madrid revenge exactly 2.5 years after the WTC and Washington revenge.
It's a revenge for you coorporation with the criminal "Bush" and his allies.
It's a revenge against the bloodshed in Iraq and Afghanistan, and more will follow if it's Allah's will.
You love life, we love death, just the way the profet Muhammad said it.
If you don't stop you wrongs, much more blood will be spilled, and the previous attacks will seem small in comparison.
Abu-Dusan Al-Afghani
Al Quada
End of quote:
- Many info sources says it proves that the Iraq government WAS/IS connected to Al Quida?, and makes it another valid argument among others to have started the war against the Iraq leadership and not the common Iraq people.
-The new Spanish president will send home all 1300 Spanish troops the 30 of June if UN doesn't take the control of the Iraq.
- The 30 of June is the official day the power is turned back to the Iraq's anyway
- The Danish soldiers will also be send home at the 30 of June, unless they will get a longer invitation from the Iraq government. The Iraq government says that they most likely will send Denmark among other countries in Iraq an invitation to stay a little longer until Iraq has recovered enough to handle their own situation fully. This decision was taken long before the Madrid terror.
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Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:06 am |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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quote:
Many info sources says it proves that the Iraq government WAS/IS connected to Al Quida?, and makes it another valid argument among others to have started the war against the Iraq leadership and not the common Iraq people.
Which info sources would EVER claim this? It's just.... just... so... argh!
The Al Qaeda, along with probably 90% of the middle east, got upset about the war, how does it show that they worked together with Saddam? And, this is only under the assumption that it was Al Qaeda, which "many info sources" believe it wasn't.
Valid argument, heh...
And the Iraq goverment is now connected to Al Qaeda? Wow, bad job by the US in that case.
quote:
If the people of Spain were so unhappy with the Iraq policies of the current leadership, why were they comfortably leading in the polls prior to the bombing? Stick to the facts, Hexy.
It could have been the handling of the entire situation, plus the suffering of repercussions from a war no one wanted from the start that may have tipped the election, not much from fear of terrorism (maybe a tiny bit!).
Edit: language!
_________________
Like some bold seer in a trance;
Seeing all his own mischance |
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Tue Mar 16, 2004 12:00 pm |
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