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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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It's a scoundrel/consular build... and draws heavily on the dark side powers, which are better than the light side powers. Wound/Choke/Kill is devastating and it's how I killed everyone and everything on Korrinas. Sometimes I'd hit them while they were defenseless and choking to death, but often I'd just fry them with Force Lightning if I couldn't be bothered to wait six seconds for them to die.
Advanced lightsaber throw is handy too, as it can't be resisted. It's not my primary attack (which is Kill, or Disable droid ... which is light side and thus expensive to use). Drain life and healing see some use as well... healing costs me at least 30 force points to use so I use drain life more often. Might as well kill the other guy while healing. After a fight walking around I'll use healing to heal up the group.
No great tactic, really. Hit kill twice and watch everything die. It's better than stasis by a lot. If I feel like helping my party out I'll toss the saber at a group to weaken them all... or use Force Lightning if they're pretty close together.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
Fri May 21, 2004 5:43 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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To EverythingXen
I am a lightside character, so I approach battles from "good of the whole party" perspective. Though I had kill, I most often used stasis field because it gave everyone in the party the advantage with their opponent. Because I kept the enemy stunned, many times no opponent was able to even launch an attack against anyone in my party,
Heal only cost me 12 points by the end of the game, so I cast it severel times during a battle. I am a big fan of Drain Life because it heals me and attacks my opponent at the same time. That is two moves if you only use lighside powers. It would cost me about 40 force points, but I had so many force points because of my high Wisdom it didn't matter. |
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Fri May 21, 2004 6:12 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I approach light side from the actual ficton point of view and all the RPG ever made for Star Wars... using dark side powers makes you a darkside character.
"A Jedi uses the Force for defense and for knowledge, never to attack."
I am dissappointed that this is not so in KOTOR. I understand it's because you get a bonus when you reach 100% light or 100% dark but I still feel it's a bad design decision. You can't justify ripping the life from an opponents body as 'defense' when you had the option to convince him to go another way or stun him. Thus my light side Jedi would never have choke/kill, drain life, affliction, insanity...
It makes things a little harder... but being a Jedi is SUPPOSED to be harder than being Sith.
Dark side characters can cheat and use the light side... that's part of being a dark side character and part of what makes the dark side so seductive.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Sat May 22, 2004 4:27 pm |
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Kendrik
Thin Blue Line
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 550
Location: England |
Of course wielding two sabres allows you to use both the "Heart of the Guardian" and the "Mantle of the Force" - if you like that kinda thing. Personally I always go two weapon fighting style - my D&D chars do it so I decide my Star Wars Chars should too.
On an aside the dark side blade (not sabre) that you can get from a certain valley is quite good if you don't want to weild sabres.
_________________
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true."
JAMES BRANCH CABELL
~Member of The Nonflamers' Guild~
~~Champion of the (Unofficial) RPGdot Text Signature Contest 2002~~ |
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Sat May 22, 2004 6:13 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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It would be better if it could block blaster bolts like a sithsword should (and can in the comics where the Old Republic stuff came from). Sithswords can block blaster shots because they're made to be nearly indestructable, able to block lightsabers and such. It's not the lightsaber that blocks a blaster shot... it's the wielder and his awareness through the Force. Sith swords cannot deflect blaster fire, however... merely block.
But they can't in this game so it's better to use a saber as a blaster shield even if you don't plan on engaging in dueling combat.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Sat May 22, 2004 6:55 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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@EverythingXen
Yeah, that is the way Jedi live in the paper role playing game, but it never made much sense to me. What does it matter to the victim whether you use your lightsaber to cut off his head or use the force to choke him? He is dead at the hand of a Jedi either way. Also, don't you need the force to use a lightsaber anyway? If you use the force to use a lightsaber to kill someone isn't that the using the force to kill?
I am aware of the old paper RPG, having knowledge of the various powers, but I have not played it before. If I am wrong, please enlighten me. I will listen. |
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Mon May 24, 2004 5:45 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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The difference between using a blaster to kill someone and the Force to kill someone is simply that aggressive actions with the Force draw upon the dark side to fuel them.
Dark side powers require a level of anger and hatred to use. You cannot calmly use Force lightning or Choke. The dark side demands your hatred and rage as its price and so using the powers takes you down the path to the dark side.
It's not the killing... it's the intent. Using a lightsaber to strike down enemies in order to defend yourself or your friends is regrettable, but sometimes neccessary. Using it carelessly or as a matter of convienience is never neccessary. Since you can only use the dark side powers with hatred or fear in your heart your intent is made clear for you... to strike the enemy down in hatred.
Since there is such as thing as a light side and a dark side to the Force and certain actions clearly pull you one way or the other there's no room for rationalizing or excuses. Using the Force to kill is evil and wrong because using the Force to kill pulls you to the dark side. Ultimately the 'why' isn't as important as the 'reality'... using dark side powers makes you evil without exception.
Yes it's black and white and not realistic... but it is the way the ficton works.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Tue May 25, 2004 4:22 am |
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Killerofevils II
Village Leader
Joined: 30 Mar 2004
Posts: 96
Location: South Bend, IN |
Hey MoonDragon whats the 10-40 damage blade your talking about? Can you please spoil it for me and tell me where I can find it  and I'll tell you where a 10-20 blaster pistol, upgradeable is 
_________________
Death in the air, strapped in the electric chair, this can't be happening to me, who made you god to say, I'll take your life from you, flash before my eyes, now its time to die, burning in my brain, I can feel the flame.
-Ride the Lightning by Metallica
I'm a rocker! Rock on!  |
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Tue May 25, 2004 3:37 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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@EverythingXen
I see. What you are saying is that Dark Side powers require meditation in fear, anger and hatred before they are revealed to the Jedi/Sith.
quote:
Standing watch with the mind, in my meditation of Anger, I have slain my enemies from Great Distances, through the Dark Side Power that permeates the Galaxy. I have created Lightning and unleashed its destructive fire.
From the Force Compendium, The Book of Anger by Emperor Palpatine.
You don't have hatred because you use it; you can use it because you hate someone.
If this is true with all the Dark Side powers, then the force powers in the game are wildly out of balance with the Dark Side being much stronger. The game designers would have to rebalance the powers in order to make the light a viable alternative. If the Jedi could not absorb or deflect all Dark Side force attacks before they actually damaged him and thus, force a lightsaber battle, then the Dark Side would truly be stronger even at the Master level.
1.There would be no way to stop the Sith from using the force against you. (Choke, Lightning, Drain Life)
2. He could stop you from using he force to help yourself. He could use the Force Breach to eliminate any strength you gain from the force.
3. You could not use the force against him, except to push or stun him, which do virtually no damage. It would be like bringing a rock to a gunfight.
The Dark Side is supposed to be quicker and more seductive, but not stronger. If a video game treated Dark Side powers the way you want them treated then, the Jedi would definitely be weaker then the Sith. The force powers would need to be changed to create a balance. |
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Tue May 25, 2004 6:18 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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The Dark Side is stronger, but not more powerful.
It is more powerful in a computer game, though.
The light side powers focus on defense and knowledge and in these roles are unsurpassed. It's just that many of the key Force abilities are missing:
Absorb/Dissipate energy is missing. It's how Luke survived the Emperor hammering away at him with lightning that would have killed a non-Jedi pretty much instantly. It's how Obi-Wan and Anakin survived running through the capicator in Attack of the Clones. Yoda simply absorbed Dooku's attack entirely. The energy protecting Force power in KOTOR is a joke by comparison to those examples.
Your strength in the Force is what is used to resist powers like choke/kill. Vader couldn't have choked Yoda if he put his entire heart into it. A saving throw is insufficient: There's no way a low level Sith should be able to choke your character after a certain point. The ability that gives you resistance to the Force should be a class feature, not an activated power.
The light side ability to see the future, one of the strongest light side abilities there is, is missing.
The downsides of the Dark Side aren't properly represented in this game. The closer to the dark side you get the more sickly your characters looks, like Palpatine and Vader... this is good. What is not good is the one key fact about the dark side: It consumes you. You don't just LOOK sickly... you ARE sickly. Your power with the force should be increased, sure, but your Constitution should drop. As a light side Jedi your Wisdom should raise as your light side affinity increases.
The dark side is fast and strong but will kill you. The light side is slow and difficult but rewards you for patience. That's how it is in the fiction but that's NOT how it is in KOTOR.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu May 27, 2004 1:49 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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@EverythingXen
I thought that the Sith could see the see the future as well as Jedi. Palpatine is always talking about how he has forseen things.
Also, when you first get to Dantooine and stand before the Jedi council there, if you are dark you are allowed to lie to them and say that you will follow the light side of the force. Wouldn't it be impossible for a human who is untrained in the force to lie to a group of Jedi Masters? |
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Fri May 28, 2004 8:10 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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The Sith can see the future... anything a Jedi can do a Sith can do (and many things a Sith can do a Jedi can't). However ... Palpatine certainly didn't do a great job at it, did he?
And as for the game and lying to the council... there were other factors at work. Personally I think Vander knew you were lying but was willing to put it aside for the sake of stopping Malak.
And from a designers point of view it would pretty much end the promise of the ability to play as you like if the council chopped you down before you could become the epitome of evil. I wasn't impressed with the lying to the masters thing but the rest of the game kicked so much ass I couldn't bring myself to dwell on it.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Sat May 29, 2004 8:13 am |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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quote:
The Sith can see the future... anything a Jedi can do a Sith can do (and many things a Sith can do a Jedi can't). However ... Palpatine certainly didn't do a great job at it, did he?
If this is true, then a Sith would be stronger, aside from the fact that the Dark Side is squeezing the life out of him.
Surely, there must be some powers that require a concern for human beings that only a Jedi can do.
And, the game did kick MAJOR ass. |
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Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:36 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Jedi are better at healing ... but it's never really been reflected in CRPGs. In general they're better at things that require calmness to work... concentration, Force senses, future seeing (Yoda was much better at it, even though the dark side clouded everything, than Palpatine ever could be.).
Other than that... no. Sith ARE stronger than Jedi. It doesn't need to be fair. Sith powers kick so much ass in all the roleplaying games it's staggering.
The Dark Side is tempting for many reasons... not just how much stronger you get fast. Powers that can only be used in a state of anger or rage that no Jedi can use beckon, promising you new and potent ways to use the Force. Wouldn't the lure of the dark side be easier to resist if the knowledge that you would become as powerful in time by serving the light was a certainty?
So why resist? Why be a Jedi? Because if you use the dark side you turn evil and are consumed. No matter what you use the powers for.
If you use the dark side to save your friend enough your mind slowly begins to warp... the fools... you always need to save them... they're incompotent idiots who only hold you back... send them away would be best... perhaps kill them...
Your mind and heart have been turned to the dark side so thoughts like this, which USED to be against your heart and personality, become the norm.
It's no different than the stupid helm of opposite alignment in D&D. You don't WANT to be chaotic evil... but slap on this helmet and you suddenly are, no matter who you were before. You don't seek to remove the helmet because in your mind things are so much better now and chaotic evil is the alignment you were born to be.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:32 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
*Writes down "Helm of Opposite Alignment"...*
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Wed Jun 02, 2004 5:57 pm |
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