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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
quote:
Originally posted by doctor_kaz
...Temple of Elemental Evil was the last PC party-based RPG. ...I hope that there will be more in the near future if and when some publishers start jumping off of the MMORPG bandwagon.
I think that's just it. ToEE was a risky and expensive project and impatient fans had no tolerance for the bugs so Atari walked away. Then there were the trolling reviewers. Only Gamespot gave the game a fair shake really. Other publishers took notice of the shellacking and decided that RPG's were too risky, MMO's real trendy, FPS's very easy and console games both simple and lucrative.
Only NWN's overwhelming success got us NWN2. Its also much easier to grant full control of a party than develop AI that will always have faults. Thankfully Obsidien finally came to that conclusion.
Also worth noting - Oblivion has shown publishers that there is an overwhelming demand for AAA single player RPG's. Whether you like or hate Oblivion we should all give a collective THANKS to Bethesda 
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"For Innos!" |
Wed May 03, 2006 1:16 pm |
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quote:
Originally posted by doctor_kaz
Temple of Elemental Evil was the last PC party-based RPG.
What about Dungeon Siege II? |
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Wed May 03, 2006 1:20 pm |
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
quote:
Originally posted by doctor_kaz
Temple of Elemental Evil was the last PC party-based RPG.
What about Dungeon Siege II?
I wish the Dungeon Siege games were cRPG's but really they are just real time action games.
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"For Innos!" |
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Wed May 03, 2006 1:37 pm |
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doctor_kaz
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 108
Location: West Virginia, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
quote:
Originally posted by doctor_kaz
...Temple of Elemental Evil was the last PC party-based RPG. ...I hope that there will be more in the near future if and when some publishers start jumping off of the MMORPG bandwagon.
I think that's just it. ToEE was a risky and expensive project and impatient fans had no tolerance for the bugs so Atari walked away. Then there were the trolling reviewers. Only Gamespot gave the game a fair shake really. Other publishers took notice of the shellacking and decided that RPG's were too risky, MMO's real trendy, FPS's very easy and console games both simple and lucrative.
Only NWN's overwhelming success got us NWN2. Its also much easier to grant full control of a party than develop AI that will always have faults. Thankfully Obsidien finally came to that conclusion.
Also worth noting - Oblivion has shown publishers that there is an overwhelming demand for AAA single player RPG's. Whether you like or hate Oblivion we should all give a collective THANKS to Bethesda
Was ToEE expensive? It didn't look like it while I was playing it. The game didn't have an advanced graphics engine or superb production values. It had great art direction, but not much else that would indicate that it was a really expensive game to make.
I fear that NWN 2 won't be nearly as successful as NWN. The success of a game tends to be related to how much people liked the previous offering, and a lot of people (like myself) aren't fond of NWN's single player campaign. The success of NWN was largely driven by hype, Bioware's previous offerings, and ridiculously inflated reviews that totally ignored how crappy the single player was. NWN 2 will have none of those particular advantages. NWN 2 may be a better game than NWN, but I'll bet that the reviews aren't as good.
Here's a question. In the late '90's, there was a huge surge in RPG's that seemingly came out of nowhere from houses like Black Isle and Bioware. Why is it that nobody new has come along since then (except for maybe Pirhanna Bytes)? It has been nine years since the first Fallout came out, and we're still waiting on former Black Isle employees to make out next big RPG. There are probably a lot of people in their early 20's who grew up on games like this. Where's all the young talent?
Last edited by doctor_kaz on Wed May 03, 2006 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wed May 03, 2006 1:38 pm |
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA |
ToEE only sold 128K units ($8.8M). Vampire only 74K units ($3.4M).
How much did ToEE and Vampire cost to develop, package, distribute and market? I would bet well over $12M. Why would publishers NOT notice this risk?
Given all the other genre's they can develop games in why would a publisher choose RPG? It really has to have a name like "Baldur's Gate" or "NWN" or "Elder Scrolls" in order to take on the risk. The basic D&D license gets you nowhere apparently.
Again - the fickle, trolling internet public crucified ToEE and Vampire. Sales were sh*t for these games and Publishers of course notice.
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"For Innos!" |
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Wed May 03, 2006 1:48 pm |
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txa1265
Magister of the Light
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 390
Location: Marlborough, MA USA |
quote:
Originally posted by doctor_kaz
The success of a game tends to be related to how much people liked the previous offering, and a lot of people (like myself) aren't fond of NWN's single player campaign. The success of NWN was largely driven by hype, Bioware's previous offerings, and ridiculously inflated reviews that totally ignored how crappy the single player was. NWN 2 will have none of those particular advantages.
Personally I *love* NWN's single player, and the fact that it sold millions reflects a love for the game - not just hype.
Hype was what gave 'Matrix Reloaded' huge opening numbers followed by a *splat*. It also happens to games like 50-cent's dud or Driv3r or whatever doesn't make it.
But with NWN, Bioware has release all the various 'gold/platinim/diamond packs, which have sold pretty well - nearly 4 years after release you can find it on shelves everywhere. Many PC games - even good ones - have a hard time finding shelf space after 4 *months*.
Mike
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Dopelar effect (n.) The tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you rapidly.
Check out my blog. |
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Wed May 03, 2006 1:54 pm |
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doctor_kaz
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 108
Location: West Virginia, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
ToEE only sold 128K units ($8.8M). Vampire only 74K units ($3.4M).
Again - the fickle, trolling internet public crucified ToEE and Vampire. Sales were sh*t for these games and Publishers of course notice.
I don't remember there being that kind of negative reaction for either of those games. I remember both of them being rather mixed, and that the mixture was an accurate portrayal of how the games had enormous potential, but were exceedingly buggy. Some people gave ToEE a bad score because they have an extremely low tolerance for bugs. I see this as a personal preference that isn't shared by everyone.
I think that Vampire flopped because Activision decided to release it the same day as Half-Life 2, right in the middle of the busiest holiday season in recent memory. Nobody noticed it because it was drowned out by about a dozen other huge name games. Also, the reviews for it were very poorly written, and basically viewed it like an FPS, not a dialog and story-driven action/RPG. (I think that Jason Ocampo's review for it at Gamespot was the worst review that he has written).
The bug reports and Troika's reputation certainly didn't help. Interestingly, I didn't find Troika's games to be that much more buggy than Neverwinter Nights when it came out. NWN crashed a lot more on me than any Troika game ever did, and I routinely encountered corrupt saves. I guess it's all about hype and reputation sometimes. |
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Wed May 03, 2006 2:18 pm |
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