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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
*speechless*
--EDIT--
Do I have a curse on me or something? Why the hell do *I* always have to wrap a thread around???
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Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:46 pm |
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Tohree Blooh
Village Dweller
Joined: 25 Jul 2003
Posts: 5
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Acck! 
Ekim, I didn't mean to imply that my feelings were hurt in any way.  To be truthful, I found the debate rather stimulating.
Heh, but I think I have pretty much exausted my side of this particular argument. In deference to you and to the other people who posted on this thread, I will agree to disagree and let it all drop at that.
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Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:47 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Tohree Blooh
Heh, but I think I have pretty much exausted my side of this particular argument. In deference to you and to the other people who posted on this thread, I will agree to disagree and let it all drop at that.
Good enough for me! 
As I said it's all about points of views, really... Sorry to have dragged it on and on in my last post, I just a little emotional I guess. But this is still an interesting debate, and I might "borrow" the discussion for a future editorial 
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Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:39 pm |
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Ligi
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 27 Aug 2003
Posts: 39
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Just canceled my SWG account. I think it can be a good game though. But playing it made me more aware of my MMRPG taste: my style is Tolkien based not sci-fi.
I should have known better because I played Earth & Beyond before and I didnt like it either. |
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Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:02 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
I think I'm slowly starting to suffer from the 'lack of content' syndrome. But it's not the lack of content that gets me. I've seen very little of the actual content. It's a lack of motivation that is the problem.
I want to socialize, but any people that I may befriend will, inevitably, drift away to other planets and other social circles. (too big of a world?)
I want to explore, but all of the intersting places have already been discovered long ago in some beta and posted all over for everybody to see. The joy of exploration is to find places nobody else has. Not to go visit places hundreds of others have been to. (too much content given to people too soon?)
I want to participate in PvP, but the moment I meet an oponent face to face, I get knocked down and keep getting knocked down until I'm dead. (I'm not even going to get into this one)
I finally earned 10000 faction points, on my quest to buy a forward outpost HQ, only to ask myself why? So I can run faction missions easier and get more FP... *cringe*
I want to heal and help people, but the amount of work and/or cost required to make medicines is insane. All I get in return is people demanding I heal them without even a 'thank you' in return, let alone some renumeration for my own costs and my insane trouble. *sigh*
I'm done rambling...
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Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:30 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
I want to participate in PvP, but the moment I meet an oponent face to face, I get knocked down and keep getting knocked down until I'm dead. (I'm not even going to get into this one)
This is one of the reason I don'T participate in PvP at all right now. For me all the danger-factor I can bare is to go out on faction mission and getting a TEF for a while, which makes me watch my back. But running around with my declared faction? Right... Imperials don't need knowckdown, they have AT-STs that do 900dmg per hit (with my armor on) and are absolutely impossible for me to kill... Add to that a player that's standing brhind that behemoth, with a carbine in hand, and knocks me down, and you've got yourself a disgruntled Bothan! 
As for the content, well the long term issues are always what matter most in an MMORPG, and we're getting at the point right now that we'Re wondering about what we'll be doing once we finally run out of skill points and have nothing more to learn. I guess the answer should be that we would then participate more in the galactic war (pvp), but as per my previous point there is no way that I'll go there any time soon.
I don't think the content is the problem right now, whether there's too much of it, or too little. I think the problem, as you pointed out, is that there is a lack of reason to go out and find that content. The other problem is the community, and that is just out of anyone's control for the moment. SWG still has a lot of growing up to do, and that's just normal, unfortunately. 
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Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:14 pm |
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Moriendor
Black Ring Leader
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 1306
Location: Germany |
Good to know that things on Chilastra aren't much different from what I am experiencing on Eclipse .
Have advanced my character to Novice Pistoleer (picked up two skills in the Pistoleer tree so far) and Novice Creature Handler (two skill levels obtained there as well). Still dabbling in all of the basic professions (esp. Brawler and Medic) and on my way to Novice Smuggler right now.
I very much share your complaints. I engaged in the GCW because I had to get the faction points (chose rebel) for the monthyl story arc. Well, it seemed like that in the beginning anyway. Right now it looks more like members of all factions drop the disks. It was still a nice change from the usual creature hunting to kill imps instead of annoying the local Corellian Greenpeace activists .
Spent some time doing those faction missions on Corellia until I heard that mission targets spawn much closer to town on Naboo. Wanted to buy a better gun first and accidentally travelled to Anchorhead (should have travelled to Mos Espa as that is where the shop is located). So I found out by accident that imperial mission targets in Anchorhead spawn at as little as 120m (!) to town with an instant waypoint update. Climbed up to Warrant Officer I in the rebel ranks, found, turned in & sold two or three sets of disks (after they increased the drop rate) and participated in raids on Bestine.
I got tired of the FP grinding last weekend. Just got boring and Ekim's PvP problem occurred to me as well. There are lots of imps camping outside Anchorhead on Eclipse. They are hiding in their houses waiting for imperial mission targets to spawn and for the mission taker to show up and catch a TEF (temporary enemy flag). Knockdown. Dead. Faster than the battle music starts playing at times  .
That's why I decided this week to stay away from PvP until all major imbalances have been taken care of. It just doesn't make sense as long as the game is still in its very unbalanced state.
Tried to make up my mind about which class would be the most non-PvP fun and came up with smuggler. It has a little bit of combat, crafting and its own special path (slicing). Should be a nice "community profession" as well. People need smugglers to slice containers, weapons and armor and they also need the buffs, drugs, and stims etc.
----
Would like to address a few concerns next:
1) AT-ST issue: Call me a traitor to the rebel cause but I don't think that they are overpowered. The way they could be used was wrong though. Imp players could call them while in combat until today (has supposedly been fixed with today's update). It is obviously stupid of a rebel player from now on to attack an imp who is walking around with his AT-ST(s) in tow. You just don't attack tanks w/o support combatants who are capable of taking care of them (and commandos are supposed to be able to deal some serious damage to AT-STs after today's patch - as they should be if I may add). I'm not sure how the TEF issue is dealt with in this regard. It would only totally make sense if imps (regardless of overt/covert) could not call their pets as long as a faction fight is occurring within 128m (or so) or else covert imps would still be able to call their pets when they should not be able to.
BTW, I wouldn't really mind if they'd limit the max number of AT-STs per player to one as a small additional nerf. Granted .
2) Getting a faction HQ: I think you should be careful about that and make sure it's *very* well defended. The latest imp favorite spare time activity seems to be to search & destroy player bases. I'd invest the FP in something else until AT-STs have gotten nerfed... well, unless you're willing to build your base next to a PA and pay them for guarding it or come up with some other 24/7 surveillance . |
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Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:40 pm |
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Moriendor
Black Ring Leader
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 1306
Location: Germany |
And a little addition. Not sure I understand your exploration problem, Moon Dragon . Isn't it the same as in single player games? The same time you're playing the game a million other people are playing it as well. There just isn't anything unique or unknown to be discovered in *any* game (except insanely difficult to discover easter eggs maybe).
In fact, your chances of being "first" are still quite good in SWG. You could be the first to unlock a Force Sensitive Slot or the first to gather a set of Mandalorian Armor etc. .
I personally have no problem with exploration. It really helps to stay away from sites like swg.allakhazam.com . I'll check there later once I'm done with my own exploration to see if I've missed anything though . |
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Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:55 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Moriendor
1) AT-ST issue: Call me a traitor to the rebel cause but I don't think that they are overpowered. The way they could be used was wrong though. Imp players could call them while in combat until today (has supposedly been fixed with today's update). It is obviously stupid of a rebel player from now on to attack an imp who is walking around with his AT-ST(s) in tow. You just don't attack tanks w/o support combatants who are capable of taking care of them (and commandos are supposed to be able to deal some serious damage to AT-STs after today's patch - as they should be if I may add). I'm not sure how the TEF issue is dealt with in this regard.
Traitor!! 
Seriously, here's the real issue with AT-ST pets right now regarding covert players that are on factional mission runs: covert players can never, ever attack an imperial player first, even if they have a TEF on them! A covert player can only "counterattack" a factional enemy, they can never be the ones to initiate combat. See how this is problematic as far as AT-ST's are concerned?
Seeing as an AT-ST does around 900 dmg a shot (and they shoot pretty quickly as I've seen too), and since they get the first shot, you're already dead before you get to be able to hit your burst run button, if you can even activate it since by the first shot your probably down below 100 points in one of your HAM bars... And don't forget that there's an imp that's probably firing at you at the same time too, so... instant death. If the guy has two AT-ST's, there's not even a point to trying to run away. But even just one AT-ST is a potential instant killer.
The additional problem is that since you are covert, imp players, both overt and coverts, still appear as regular neutral dots on your radar. Most of them are probably real neutral players, some are imp coverts, and neither of those can attack you. But all of a sudden out of the pack of blue dots comes out one of them that runs straight towards you for some reason. Too late you look behind you to see the guy close in, with that big Imp sig over his name (he spotted you quickly because you appear as a red blip on his radar...). He calls out his AT-ST (he had all the time in the world!), and before you know it you have a laughing imp and a juggernaught AT-ST firing at you from behind...........
You could say that commandos and BH's (now with their overpowered LLCs) do too much damage, but at least those can be on either side of the conflict. We're talking about something that's only availble to one side here. Forcing players to have only one AT-ST won't fix the problem. And nerfing is not really a solution I like. I would rather like to see that covert players who have a TEF would be able to spot enemy players that are in their surrounding, just the same as overt players (red dots on the radar!). At least that would give us a chance to run away before they get too close!
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Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:25 pm |
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Moriendor
Black Ring Leader
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 1306
Location: Germany |
You are right there, Ekim but these are still two separate issues in my opinion .
The first being that you can never win a fight as a covert rebel if you catch a TEF and if the imp attacks first. Personally, I've been killed by the imp in 90% of my deaths, not by any of his pets. Knockdown is the major problem here. I wasn't exaggerating in my post above. I sometimes got the knockdown message before I even knew who or what hit me and most of the time I was not even expecting to have a TEF at all because I hadn't fought any imperials for several minutes. Some imps around Anchorhead have become very pro at these stealth attacks. They just hit you out of nowhere and you have no chance to run away or to fight back.
OK, death may be even more instant if they bring an AT-ST to the fight but all in all I'd say that AT-STs are a separate problem. I just wish they couldn't call them in combat. It should be like "What you see is what you get" so if you see a group of imps and decide to attack them with your group they shouldn't be able to call their AT-STs in the midst of combat. That's what bugged me the most. They were able to turn the odds from "even" to "hopeless" in a matter of seconds.
Except for that, I still think it's fair that the imps have AT-STs. They are hopelessly outnumbered by rebels. We (rebels) just need to make use of this advantage more. There has to be more communication, better grouping etc. |
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Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:45 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
I have no sympathy for people who run faction destroy missions covertly and get ganked. Why on earth are you covert? Too chicken to be overt? Yet you still want to attack targets of the oposing faction? You deserve to be ganked.
Go overt and you'll see all your enemies. End of story. In fact, you may be able to attack that imp before he manages to pull out his at-st, and gank him for change. After all, I'm sure he has no actual PvP skill since he never really had to fight.
Personally, I never pull my pets out in PvP. They are just not worth it. And, aside from attacking two high level creature handlers, I've won every single one on one PvP I've been in (I got one of those creature handlers back).
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Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:06 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
I have no sympathy for people who run faction destroy missions covertly and get ganked. Why on earth are you covert? Too chicken to be overt? Yet you still want to attack targets of the oposing faction? You deserve to be ganked.
Well, if it's any comfort, I don't ask for sympathy. But I don't mind being ganked, and that's not really the point. The point is that I have virtually no way of defending myself. I didn't ask for a nerf, I didn't say it was overpowering, I didn't say I was being griefed, and I didn't say that those who gank me are bad people, or that I'm a poor defenseless soul (well, actually I did say I was defenseless...). If I ask to see other overts as red blips on my radar, it's not because I want to attack them first, it's because I actually want a chance to see them coming, and maybe avoid them!
You might not use your pets in PvP, but I can assure you that many, many, many people do, and have no qualms about it. I see imps patrolling the area around Moenia with two AT-STs and a contingeant of storm troopers behind them... They certainly don't have them out just for the fun of showing them off, not there anyway. And if I happen to show up on their radar before I see them while having a TEF, I'm done for... no chance of escape.
And afterall, why wouldn't a TEF be considered as a temporary overt status? I don't see the harm in it... To be quite honest I chose to be covert not because I don't like PvP, but because I like to choose where and when I participate in it (and that is why I liked DAoC so much). I'm not saying that's the best way to think, but that's my way of thinking. But if going on factional missions made me overt for a while, I guess I wouldn't mind that at all! Then at least I would have a certain control over how I play, or how people interact with me. As it stands now all it does is flag me to other people, but leaves me unable to assess the level of danger I am heading in.
To a certain extent I agree that if you decide to participate in the Galactic conflict you have to accept that you will be flagged with the side you chose to take. That's fine. What isn't is that I have no way to defend myself, and no real way to even avoid danger unless I go completely overt (which I am not willing to do right now).
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Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:55 pm |
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Moriendor
Black Ring Leader
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 1306
Location: Germany |
The reason I haven't gone overt is that I still want to be able to travel to every place in the galaxy. Another reason is that some people out there find it fun to camp cloning centers and star ports. I guess everyone of us has seen overt rebels or imps begging for the deathblow. Some funny people seem to find it entertaining to just incap overts of the other faction and to not let them get back in the game for hours!
There's no way of knowing which locations are safe for overt players. I didn't know that Anchorhead and Bestine were factional domains before I got there. I guess you're in deep deep trouble if you accidentally travel to another faction's domain.
That's why I prefer to stay covert for the time being. If I get "ganked" by an opposing faction member - tough luck. I just wish there was some sort of notification when you get a TEF so you know when you're in trouble. As I said above, I very often got the knockdown message out of nowhere. Must have happened when I ran too close by an enemy base with an imp player just hitting his targetting key like crazy until he could attack me.
In fact, I only had *one* real duel with an imp player so far (out of hmm... -say- 30 fights so far). The other fights were extremely one-sided. I got the knockdown message and died three seconds later. Didn't even see the folks on radar. Maybe they've figured out how to use the terrain to their advantage around Anchorhead and how to make themselves invisible. I don't know. Just know that PvP needs a fix like most everything else . |
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Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:26 pm |
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