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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
| High ideals to aim for, or... |
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Something high to aim for, or just a screw up when it comes to game design? Ceremonial Uthgardt Belt
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Sun Jul 21, 2002 6:40 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I received an amulet that required level 26. God knows what they were thinking... 
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Sun Jul 21, 2002 7:06 am |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
Well, maybe they're giving more incentives to wait for the add-on  They'll probably add the D&D epic-level rules to NWN so that players can rise over 20. Haven't seen those rules though, except for small mentions in Forgotten Realms' new campaign setting. EverythingXen, as the official D&D specialist, do you know anything about the epic-level rules?
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"If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance."
- George Bernard Shaw
- Member of The Nonflamers' Guild -
- Member of The Alliance of Middle-Earth -
- Worshiper of Written Word -
- Proud supporter of E.H.U.A.O - |
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Sun Jul 21, 2002 1:50 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Oh yes. They're positively retarded... designed solely for a munchkin's wet dreams.
Alright... they're not THAT bad. The requirements are high on the epic level feats (duh)... and the feats are more powerful than anything to come before level 20 (double duh.. that's why they're epic).
There are feats that turn monks into Dragonball Z killing machines. There are feats that turn a twin scimitar wielding ranger into an instant death machine (mark II... a twin scimitar wielding fighter/ranger is already an instant death machine, especially if it's drow).
The epic MONSTERS are the best thing about the book. You look at them and blink and go 'oh... my... god... If I don't use everything in this book to its full advantage... it's going to kill me!'
I'm particulary fond of a 12 hit point paragon hamster being able to destroy a level 15 party.
All in all... I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few slavering munchkins (el33t of the pen and paper world) out there that dropped dead from ecstacy when they opened the book. But it's possible (hard, but possible) fot a more serious group of players to enjoy it too...
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Sun Jul 21, 2002 5:23 pm |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
Xen, pfft. I hoped they would have made them a bit more reasonable. The idea is good for making NPCs. Elminster is certainly over lvl 20, as well as the other big characters in Faerun. With epic rules, you can really make these characters powerful enough to be feared and respected even by a high-level party. I've been wondering about this, since in the NWN campaign I'm going to be working on will introduce some of these legends, including one of the seven sisters etc. Although they will probably be just guest appearances that the players cannot fight, they will still lack that final edge of omnipotency they have in the campaign setting.
I think that if I would DM an PnP D&D game, I would require some pretty heroic deeds to be done to reach epic levels (as is reaching lvl 20 doesn't require a good amount of extraordinary tasks). Experience wouldn't be enough, maybe epic levels could only be granted by a deity or extremely powerful magic.
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"If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance."
- George Bernard Shaw
- Member of The Nonflamers' Guild -
- Member of The Alliance of Middle-Earth -
- Worshiper of Written Word -
- Proud supporter of E.H.U.A.O - |
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Sun Jul 21, 2002 8:48 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Epic Eliminster is in the Epic Level Handbook. He's ... well... terrifying. But it's probably the 'truest' Eliminster printed. He's Gandalf... truly Gandalf now. Which is what Greenwood wanted all along.
I don't know... in my games, it takes some pretty heroic things to go up levels. There aren't many "DUngeons of Leveling Up + 10" floating around. Every action saves a small village or a small nation... every inaction damns one. My players characters ARE the Elminsters and such of my game setting. Except that... well... they're level 11. But they're still expected to be!
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Mon Jul 22, 2002 6:18 am |
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DzD
Unknown
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 7140
Location: Sweden |
Well, a guy said that , "that is only multiplayer stuff."
I found axes, swords, magic items, and a lot of things that required level 61
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There once was a youngster, DzD
Whose avatars numbered infinity
But I must admit
His latest, a hit
Cuz the Little One's a mystery to me
Written by - dteowner |
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Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:46 am |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
The epic-level Eliminster is in the campaign setting too, with all the epic benefits. They just mention that to use it to full extent, DM has to get the epic-level book. As I said, reaching lvl 20 is a epic guest itself, but what I've meant is that it would take something even more heroic to reach beyond that. My campaign didn't offer those quick-level paths either. The characters got better as the campaign got along. If they managed to avoid a lot of the fights I had anticipated, I rewarded them enough XP for their good ideas so that they wouldn't start to lag behind.
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"If you can't get rid of the skeleton in your closet, you'd best teach it to dance."
- George Bernard Shaw
- Member of The Nonflamers' Guild -
- Member of The Alliance of Middle-Earth -
- Worshiper of Written Word -
- Proud supporter of E.H.U.A.O - |
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Mon Jul 22, 2002 12:29 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I don't see any terrific difference between level 20 and 21, personally.
"Things... changing... suddenly... hit peak. Need... divine inspiration..."
At the rate they're going, though, it's nothing I'll ever need worry about. They chatter so much while playing (chatter, not roleplay) that if they get one fight in a night they're lucky. And no RP rewards for talking about Dragonball Z.
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Mon Jul 22, 2002 3:17 pm |
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