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Lynx
Village Dweller
Joined: 06 Sep 2003
Posts: 14
Location: Slovenija |
I'll go with an archer fighter, a sorceress, mage//fighter, fighter/barbarian/monk, cleric//thief(or just druid or just cleric).
Don't know yet how it's with the classes in 3.5 - don't know what's new, but it will surely be an estimate of the party above. |
Sun Sep 07, 2003 7:59 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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If it's TRUE 3.5, my 'review' party will be
Fighter
Ranger
Cleric
Sorcerer
Rogue
There's no way for that combination to not win.
The fighter will be heavy on melee, the ranger will be heavy on archery, as will the cleric and rogue, the sorcerer will be heavy on metamagic and summoning spells to support the fighter. I'll take the NPCs but I won't need them.
These games favor melee, always, but you can usually get a volley off before you have to mix it up. Plus if you have a strong enough melee character the others can keep firing ranged. Point blank shot and precise shot negates the penalty for shooting into a melee, and all my characters (except the fighter, who will shoot and then move to melee, and the sorcerer who will use his precious feat slots to win the game) will have those two feats.
Though it's tempting to just scream Raaaaaaaaasssssskkkkk and destroy the game and leave it whimpering and begging for mercy with my barbarian party.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:51 pm |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
EverythingXen,
In all D&D CRPGs that i ever played, my party always consist of:
Fighter
Ranger (another fighter for six members party)
Cleric
Wizard
Rogue
And all my characters are heavily specialized in their own class abilities. E.g - Fighter that major in melee combat and using two-handed sword when leveling up will always focus on those abilities. Also, he/she will never multiclassing,like 2/Rogue - 8/fighter. Every other characters will also taking the same approach. While my fighter(s) engaging in melee combat, my Cleric, Wizard, Rogue will always use bow, crossbow or sling when they're not casting spells or other things.
With this kind of party, tactic and character development/leveling and under D&D 3.5 rule set, is there anything else that i need to do to make my party even more powerful and efficient - like taking multiclassing route for some of the characters?. |
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Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:21 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Nope. Some people put three levels of paladin into cleric, or one level of paladin into sorcerer... but really, there's no need.
If you're really experience with D&D games consider dropping the wizard for a sorcerer. If you pick your spell carefully and hoarde scrolls and wands you'll be thankful for the practically unlimited number of fireballs per day, if they did spontaneous casting correctly for once (which I doubt).
The fighter in his tanking role can afford to go to level four fighter and then take a bunch of levels of barbarian for rage and hit points... he'll have most of the feats he wants by level 4... but it's not needed. A lot of feats can be a good thing. It depends how many made it into the game.
The rogue can benefit from two levels of fighter for two combat feats early in his career, but the longer you wait the less needed or useful it becomes. Again, purely optional.
The most powerful party in my opinion (besides 5 clerics) would be:
Half-Orc fighter/barbarian (4/6). power attack (1), cleave (1), weapon focus: greatsword (2), some feat at level 3 (depends what's in the game), weapon specialization: greatsword (4), some feat (6), some feat (9).
Human Ranger (10). Point blank shot (1), precise shot (1), archery combat path (if they're using 3.5) at level 2, which gives you rapid shot, improved initiative (3), some feat (6), some feat (9)
Human Cleric (10) Point blank shot (1), precise shot (1), craft wondrous item (3), craft magical arms and armor (6), some feat (9)
Human rogue (10) Point Blank shot (1), precise shot (1), improved initiative (3), some feat (6), some feat (9)
Human Sorcerer (10) Spell Pentetration (1), Greater Spell Penetration (1), Heighten Spell (3), Empower Spell (6), some feat (9)
Game go bye bye with this combination. And if you see a lot of humans it's because... well.. humans are the best race in 3rd edition for that extra feat. The fighter isn't human because he gets enough feats to not really need another one at level one... not as much as a half-orcs +2 strength.
Any of those classes with 'some feat' written somewhere can be turned into a demi-human without much loss of power. It does delay when the feats are placed, though.
But frankly if everyone uses this combination... what's the point in them putting in 5 races and 11 classes. 
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Tue Sep 09, 2003 4:35 am |
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Northchild
Fearless Paladin
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 232
Location: New York, USA |
I like playing "concept" parties myself. My current setup is a group of neutral-good aligned, all human, "woodsy" types. I imagine that they got whiff of the Temple o' Evil and decided that it wasn't going to encroach on their respective wilderness Edens.
1. Human Barbarian Male NG (tank)
2. Human Barbarian Female NG (tank)
3. Human Druid Male NG (divine buffosity)
4. Human Bard Female NG (arcane, traps 'n' locks, party representative, tired of cities)
5. Human Ranger Male NG (shoots stuff, hides & spots)
_________________
New to 3D? Check out www.3dbuzz.com today! |
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Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:34 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Well, my 'demo' party is currently
Paladin
Monk
Rogue
Cleric
Sorcerer
That's enough to beat the game. I threw the monk in because of a whack of special abilities and the fact that after a few rerolls (not many, actually) I came up with three 16s and three 17s. Which is enough to build a GOOD monk. Just.
They get to be my little goodie two-shoes party. Though the party alignment is neutral good. I started two parties actually... one neutral good and one lawful good. They do indeed have different starting points, which is a nice touch.
Going to try an evil half-orc party when I get home and see what happens. Considering my paladin party ended up 'butchers of Hommlet in the first 5 minutes' (man are those peasants ever lucky with their spot checks when being pick pocketed) before reloading I can only imagine the carnage.
Nice, nice combat option. My paladin, resigned to the fact that the thief had done something stupid, sought to end the fight as non-violently as possible and used the combat option of doing subdual damage and knocked the farmers out. Of course, then one NPC inexplicably decided to run through the middle of my party to heal one of his friends and evaporated under a hail of attacks of opportunity (which is where the butcher title came from). So I had the paladin kill the thief and monk for their deceptively evil natures.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:24 pm |
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Seth
Last Man Standing
Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Posts: 1008
Location: Faerun |
After playing the game for 3 days I didn’t get any smarter how to use these tactics “something vs. something”, but what do expect from me I still have no idea how to ungrappled myself from the frogs. Face it people if you have no idea about PnP you gonna lose a lot, but still enjoy the game (not as much as who knows the rules though)
Anyway this is what I don’t like (bugs and implementation alike).
TAB – more or less is working, the more I press the less is working.
I'm experiencing small graphics and sound glitches when living any area (no biggie)
Number one on my really “hate” list is, how the hell I can end combat and get the hell out of the place? Recently my cleric casted turn undead, well to make the story short all these undead were turned and were wondering out of reach and out of sight. But still I couldn’t end the combat mode; do I miss something here?
I won’t touch the identify
IMO the implementation of magic items and lack of description was a bad idea, use and try is not my cup of tea, what if the item is cursed?
Few questions as well
Is there somewhere a difficulty level settings?
And a Sneak attack, how actually does it work?
I would rate this game as Hard (due to my stupidity vs. rules knowledge)
_________________
Money - An article which may be used as a universal passport to everywhere except heaven, and as a universal provider of everything except happiness. |
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Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:30 pm |
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stanthony
One Smart Dog
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 556
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
Hmmm... I'm still waiting for this game, should have it in about a week... But I wonder, if our expectations were very hard again? I mean here is 2 cents from Seth, and honestly whose are not very good 2 cents. Ok, I know PnP D&D pretty well, but what about the rest of those little problems? And, Seth, trust me, it has nothing to do with your alleged "stupidity"  After those classes in D&D with Xen that you were taking during last few months you're equipped better than most players to face ToEE. I hate to think the game is not that good, because of minor problems such as these. Tell me I'm wrong, please.
_________________
- Druids do not fight with metal weapons! Sit here, and you over here. Put the elbows of your right arms on the table...
- Arm-pulling? Get me back me pan!
R.A.Salvatore The Cleric Quintet. Canticle |
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Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:09 pm |
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Seth
Last Man Standing
Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Posts: 1008
Location: Faerun |
Well, Stan in spite of the shortcomings, the game is still worth buying (I don’t take the responsibility if you get aggravated watching your fighter roll 6 2’s in the row, it happened to me, I didn’t know that I could swear like that ). If you like PnP I think you definitely like that one. Think of this way: I played LH and now I wouldn’t recommend to you, but ToEE is still good game to try.
_________________
Money - An article which may be used as a universal passport to everywhere except heaven, and as a universal provider of everything except happiness. |
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Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:01 pm |
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stanthony
One Smart Dog
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 556
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
quote:
Originally posted by Seth
Well, Stan in spite of the shortcomings, the game is still worth buying (I don’t take the responsibility if you get aggravated watching your fighter roll 6 2’s in the row, it happened to me, I didn’t know that I could swear like that ). If you like PnP I think you definitely like that one. Think of this way: I played LH and now I wouldn’t recommend to you, but ToEE is still good game to try.
Hmmm... I guess, I just have to live with this "Stan" thingy, huh? Noone to blame, but myself for choosing such a crapy long nickname  Or, maybe we can arrange it another way - maybe "Anthony" will do for a short one? 'Cause it's kind of closer to my actual name... Ah, whatever, do as you prefer 
I'll take your advise, Seth. Well, I'm buying this one anyhow. I'm sure ToEE is a good game. I just don't want to be disappointed again. BTW, I'm playing Lionheart right now - finally I gave it a try while waiting for ToEE and imagine I'm not even entirely pissed off by it It is playable. At least for first 14 hours or something - as far as I got it yet.
_________________
- Druids do not fight with metal weapons! Sit here, and you over here. Put the elbows of your right arms on the table...
- Arm-pulling? Get me back me pan!
R.A.Salvatore The Cleric Quintet. Canticle |
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Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:12 pm |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
quote:
Originally posted by Seth
I won’t touch the identify
IMO the implementation of magic items and lack of description was a bad idea, use and try is not my cup of tea, what if the item is cursed?
The Identify issue seem to caused quite a stir among players. Since Troika also said TOEE will be friendly to non-D&D/casual CRPGs player - this design decision apparently not very good. Are they expecting newbies to bother enough to find magical items stats on internet or in latest D&D manual?... |
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Sat Sep 20, 2003 3:36 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Working 29 of the last 48 hours sucks.
In any case...
Sneak attack is cool! To get it to work you either: 1) Have your rogue go befre the guy you're sneak attacking (flatfoot) 2) Flank the guy (surround him on two seperate sides with at least two characters, one of which being the rogue) 3) Be invisible/hidden.
It's that easy, and it's deadly. TWF + weapon finesses + sneak attack + flatfoot = dead most things.
A party of rogues, if they could successfully hit and harm it, would rip the Balor to pieces before it got to go.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Sun Sep 21, 2003 9:32 pm |
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Seth
Last Man Standing
Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Posts: 1008
Location: Faerun |
I had 5 FIVE critical misses in the row and never yet two consecutive critical hits!! So far my record on consecutive misses is 19!! I’m starting to get UPSET!!! Who the hell is rolling these dices!
Sorry I’ve got to let out my frustration, I think my PC is cheating, if he will continue rolling this way I’m puling the plug (that will teach him).
_________________
Money - An article which may be used as a universal passport to everywhere except heaven, and as a universal provider of everything except happiness. |
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Mon Sep 22, 2003 1:39 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Most modern D&D games are weighted towards lower dice rolls over higher ones. It was because of Pools of Darkness, where a Vorpal sword was introduced for the first time... and every fight you could count on something getting beheaded.
POR2 was the worst for it, allowing a 20 for a character 1 time out of 50 or so and allowing a '1' 1 time out of 10.
I haven't noticed any serious weighting yet in TOEE, but then I'm still working on the kazza demo and have played three hours total.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:02 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
They weight the die rolls? I presume this is for balancing which suggests to me that something else is broken. Surely the rolls should be perfectly random? |
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Wed Sep 24, 2003 11:45 pm |
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