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peterb
Village Dweller
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 21
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| How common is resurrection powder? |
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So after a hiatus of a few months, I've decided to give Wiz 8 another try. My first run through -- which I abandoned on the Arnika road, when faced with that UTTERLY RIDICULOUS hungo or whatever the hell it's called -- I found it to be promising, interesting, and deeply flawed. But I'm a patient man, so I'm giving it another shot.
So I'm on the Arnika Road of Ultimate Cruelty, and encountered your typically huge group of stupidly overpowered bandits, backed by a witch of some sort. I killed them, but lost my bishop in the process. Fortunately, I had some resurrection powder in my pack, and brought him back.
My question is: how common is this? Should I expect characters to drop like flies, and think "No big deal, resurrection powder is $5 per six-pack at the stop-n-shop, I'll pick some up next time I'm in town?" Or is this a "reload the game, because you're totally screwed" level event?
Inquiring minds want to know.
-Peter |
Mon Oct 13, 2003 7:22 pm |
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stanthony
One Smart Dog
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 556
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
Ressurection powder is not a common thing, and not a cheap one, too. You found the first bag in monastery's waterfall, right? I'd keep it for later on. You shouldn't reload often, just don't rush to the battle and manouvre wisely. Those bandits are not that bad, really. They are completely beatable without dying. Just try another tactics. The problem maybe also with your party members/development. Could you post your characters here so we can read and gice you further adivce.
Bottom line - I used ressurection powder couple of times and not in the first part of the game. Nessy was my first try of it, I think 
_________________
- Druids do not fight with metal weapons! Sit here, and you over here. Put the elbows of your right arms on the table...
- Arm-pulling? Get me back me pan!
R.A.Salvatore The Cleric Quintet. Canticle |
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Mon Oct 13, 2003 8:05 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
First off, a couple frustration fixers for you:
1) The stretch from the monestary to Arnika is the most mismatched area in the entire game, IMO. There's reasons for it, but the whole game won't be so steeply stacked against you.
2) You MUST make use of available terrain in this game, or you will die on a regular basis. Always try to find yourself a nice, comfy funnel (a "V" in the wall) to back into. That way, only 1 or 2 critters will be able to melee with you each round, while the rest dutifully line up behind in perfect position to be softened up with area effect spells.
3) You can't kill the hogar now short of some miracle. You can run past him if you hug the walls. He's there as a message from the designers: "Go south to Arnika".
As for ressy powder, I would anticipate using 2 or 3 before you get to Arnika (stanthony must have mixed excellent strategy with a bit of luck). You should have come out of the monestary with between 3 and 5 bags if you found all of them.
Almost forgot- welcome to the boards! Ask questions all you like, cuz we love giving advice, and occasionally we even know what we're talking about. 
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:49 pm |
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peterb
Village Dweller
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 21
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The advice I was given was to try it again using this party:
lizard fighter, fighter, hobbit rogue
mook ranger, elf bishop, gadgeteer
and use the character building tips at some-hint-site-or-other
So I did that, but stupidly decided I couldn't resist the lure of the samurai, because of my foolish memories of playing Wiz 1 and getting the Murasama blade. So I made one of the fighters a human Samurai (aiming for the 'perfect' samurai described on so-and-so's page)
So far, I'm mostly wishing I had a party of 3 fighters, a ranger, a bishop, and a specialist mage instead. Having only one tank is kinda hurting me. I'm hoping the samurai picks up the slack soon (my chars are all around 6th level or so).
The monastary was really, really easy with this party, btw, if that matters. Even Gregor. |
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Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:52 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
Having both a rogue and a gadgie is a waste as long as you're running the most recent patch. Since pickpocket has been totally nerfed in version 1.2.4, rogues are practically useless since a bard or gadgie can get just as good with locks-n-traps.
A good rookie party would be:
fighter, misc melee type (your sammy fits), ranger, bard or gadgie, mage, and priest or bishop.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Tue Oct 14, 2003 12:36 am |
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peterb
Village Dweller
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 21
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Hmmm. Maybe at this point then it makes sense to make my rogue switch class to fighter. I've noticed that i use the gadgeteer for all the locks and stuff, and i've never been a "pickpocket every NPC you meet" sort of player.
What do you think? |
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Tue Oct 14, 2003 1:19 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
That would be OK, except I'm not sure that's going to address the real hole in your lineup. You've got a bishop as your only caster. Making that work takes some effort for an "advanced player". Not to say it can't be done, because it most certainly can, but you're certainly not making it easy for yourself.
Given how far into the game you are, you might want to consider a restart. Keep in mind that the advice comes from a guy with about 70 restarts, so I might favor that path just a touch more than most.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Tue Oct 14, 2003 2:20 am |
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stanthony
One Smart Dog
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 556
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
quote:
Originally posted by dteowner
As for ressy powder, I would anticipate using 2 or 3 before you get to Arnika (stanthony must have mixed excellent strategy with a bit of luck). You should have come out of the monestary with between 3 and 5 bags if you found all of them.
Hm, dteowner, you know, I just though - I read somewhere (article? forums?) that Arnika road has a nasty little feature - it is *very* different each new time you play. I played through Wiz8 two times, and started it anew countless times. What I had on Arnika road is as follows:
- One awful set of encounters with constant running and and trying to sleep behind the lonely house with sealed doors (peterb - it's the place on Arnika road you can sleep without being attacked! Note - you will never get attacked at all. Enjoy yourself  ) But speaking about awful time, it's this time I got out of monastery having some sort of illness on half of my party after fighting a giant rat and reloading 20 (?) times... This illness will not cure by potions or sleeping not make thing worse on early stages of game.
- Two times I fight 3 (!) times before I got to Arnika (got past the hogar there). Some luck, huh? 
- Several times fights were numerous but not impossible. Some blood, some changing tactics and voila.
- One (!) time I got killed several times by giant ants/bandits/wasps working together. I overmanouvered them in the end and escaped the fight with all of them.
I think maybe it's this situation we talking about here? I also think reloading won't change those random encounters. Only startin a new game will.
@peterb - Also consider listening to advice about more than one caster. Bishop is *hard* to develop quickly, although he's a universal sort of guy. I think unless you're playing second/third time through the game you need arcane caster (mage, psionic, alchemist). I'd take two - nothing wrong about it. Psionics rule early in the game. My approximate starter party for you would be something like:
1. fighter/lord (I think you can go with lord - not so effective as fighter maybe, but much more fun to go with)
2. samurai (make it felpurr )
3. priest (and like in D&D games make him a front line fighter, you can spare enough in strengh etc. here)
4. gadgeteer (simply fun - mook is my choice for this guy, just because they're fit for the task)
5. mage
6. psionic
quote:
Originally posted by dteowner
Almost forgot- welcome to the boards! Ask questions all you like, cuz we love giving advice, and occasionally we even know what we're talking about.
Yes, it might happen occasionally, but it's not our fault, honestly
_________________
- Druids do not fight with metal weapons! Sit here, and you over here. Put the elbows of your right arms on the table...
- Arm-pulling? Get me back me pan!
R.A.Salvatore The Cleric Quintet. Canticle |
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Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:03 am |
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peterb
Village Dweller
Joined: 13 Oct 2003
Posts: 21
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Well, it turns out my hobbit rogue can't multiclass to -anything- because he has stats under the minimums for every other class (i'm currently maxing his dex and str).
But y'know, he does pretty well in combat, actually. I'm having him dual wield a sword (need to start training that...) and dagger, and when he backstabs, he dishes it out. No, he's not as mondo as my fighter, but I'll stick with him.
I'm doing OK with just the bishop as the primary spellcaster. I've held off on most of my spell picks so far, because i'm not certain what I can find. His most useful spell so far seems to be 'insanity', and he's got web, heal (of course), stamina (stupid pick!), sleep (after using this for a while i don't think i'd pick it again, although it came in handy early on), light (from a spellbook, of course), bless (ditto), divine traps (ditto). and maybe one or two more. But mostly i'm holding out until he can get lvl 6/7 spells. Every level I max wiz, alch, div, and psi [3 to wiz, 2 each to the others]. I ignore the specific realms, buffing those by practice. My wizardry just topped 30, so i think i'm in ok shape. i hope.
The big disappointment so far is the samurai. What a waste of flesh. He does less damage than the rogue with his swords. Would it 'help' if i didn't have him dual-wield? I dunno. maybe his mage spells will come in handy eventually, but right now i'm amazingly disappointed in how cool he isn't. If I did restart, i'd probably replace him with a second fighter.
formation: I've got fighter, sam, and rogue up front. bishop and gadgeteer in the center. Vi is on my left flank wielding a polearm. Ranger is on my right flank with her bow, and has a polearm she can switch to for close work.
I could restart, and I considered it, but I'm gonna keep on keepin' on. If I can buf the rogue into a respectable fighter I can live with that (and lord knows he's better than my pathetic samurai). They just (barely) won a great battle at the docks in arnika against 5 savant guards and 5 savant gunners. That one was fun. |
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Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:41 pm |
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stanthony
One Smart Dog
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 556
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
quote:
Originally posted by peterb
I'm doing OK with just the bishop as the primary spellcaster. I've held off on most of my spell picks so far, because i'm not certain what I can find. His most useful spell so far seems to be 'insanity', and he's got web, heal (of course), stamina (stupid pick!), sleep (after using this for a while i don't think i'd pick it again, although it came in handy early on), light (from a spellbook, of course), bless (ditto), divine traps (ditto). and maybe one or two more. But mostly i'm holding out until he can get lvl 6/7 spells. Every level I max wiz, alch, div, and psi [3 to wiz, 2 each to the others]. I ignore the specific realms, buffing those by practice. My wizardry just topped 30, so i think i'm in ok shape. i hope.
You can play bishop very effectively, but let me tell you that arcane caster is never a burden I don't like bishops personally because I must develop so many other attributes of them that they just cant afford to be front line fighters. And for me there is nothing like mean old cleric with a heavy hammer smashing bandits and freaking ants while reading his ressurection on unlucky rogue
quote:
Originally posted by peterb
The big disappointment so far is the samurai. What a waste of flesh. He does less damage than the rogue with his swords. Would it 'help' if i didn't have him dual-wield? I dunno. maybe his mage spells will come in handy eventually, but right now i'm amazingly disappointed in how cool he isn't. If I did restart, i'd probably replace him with a second fighter.
Sword. Two swords. Dual wiled. Close combat. Maximize dexterity and speed. Unbeatable by the middle of the game. Receives minimal damage while hacking enemies in a minute.
Consider choosing two most vital attributes for each character and develop tham to the maximum as fast as you can. After 100 points you will get special bonuses for those. If you do it constantly on level-up, your characters will show their master proficiency soon enough.
quote:
Originally posted by peterb
I could restart, and I considered it, but I'm gonna keep on keepin' on. If I can buf the rogue into a respectable fighter I can live with that (and lord knows he's better than my pathetic samurai). They just (barely) won a great battle at the docks in arnika against 5 savant guards and 5 savant gunners. That one was fun.
Good luck and welcome to the wonderfual world of Wizardry8. it's nothing like the first time through, so keep going. If it becomes difficult you can always restart. Just have fun!
EDIT: Stupid mistakes
_________________
- Druids do not fight with metal weapons! Sit here, and you over here. Put the elbows of your right arms on the table...
- Arm-pulling? Get me back me pan!
R.A.Salvatore The Cleric Quintet. Canticle |
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Tue Oct 14, 2003 4:03 pm |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
Yes, this party of bandits... It forced me to begin again with lower difficulty (it was my first RPG...). But I am really glad that I tried it again. This was wonderful game :]. |
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Tue Oct 14, 2003 6:35 pm |
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John373
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 117
Location: Retardid Los Angeles, CA |
| Re: How common is resurrection powder? |
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It would've being nice if the Priest came ready into the game with the Resurrection spell. I imagine there'd be fewer complaints about uneven battles and the frequency of them as well.  I'm usually nervous throughout the game until my Priest learns that fabulous spell at level 14. The fearless, drunk-like courage after is indescribable...
"WHO WANTS SOME?!?!" 
_________________
Dame it! Hold still so I can target you! |
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Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:20 pm |
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Bilbo
High Emperor
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 1620
Location: New York |
quote:
Originally posted by peterb
Hmmm. Maybe at this point then it makes sense to make my rogue switch class to fighter. I've noticed that i use the gadgeteer for all the locks and stuff, and i've never been a "pickpocket every NPC you meet" sort of player.
What do you think?
One other suggestion: train your gadgie to be a fighter-type.
Most players play the bard & gadgie to be rear support characters, which is fine if you have the "traditional" 3 tank, priest-type, thief-type, mage-type party. You treat the bard or gadgie as a thief subclass, and fight accordingly using distance weapons. That's how I played first time through.
Towards the end of my first game, I realized that the bard & gadgie are also subclasses of fighter. By that time, it was too late for me to properly train my bard to fight. (I also had an unusual issue - my bard was a female faerie and so had additional issue with some weapons. Her sword was the sword of hearts.)
Second time through, I trained my gadgie (hobbit, not that it really matters) as a fighter from the start - a swordsman on the front line. He really worked - fighting along side a samurai, valkyrie, ninja and monk to make a solid front 5. Armed with a blade cuisinart, he was probably my second best fighter after my valkyrie with excalibur.
You are certainly early enough in the game to give this a try, if you want to.
_________________
The world itself shifts and changes and fades to mist like the strings of a minstrel's harp, and mayhap the dreams we forge are more enduring than the works of kings and gods.-Robert E. Howard
=Member of the RPGDot Shadows, The Nonflamers' Guild, and The Alliance of Middle Earth= |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:00 am |
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John373
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 117
Location: Retardid Los Angeles, CA |
| Re: How common is resurrection powder? |
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The team that always gets me out of the difficult, early battles of the game (without any fatalities) is 3 fighters, 1 bard, 1 mage and 1 priest. Of course, I play on Normal or Easy difficulty. I spread out my fighters around the clock with the lonely bard taking up the rear, and nest the magicians in the middle. This works well for me, especially when I'm traveling in the open grounds of the Swamp. But when traveling along the walls, I put the magicians in back.
On Expert level, I change the priest to a bishop or a fighter into a mage so as to add more magic power to the team, and then I pick up the Android. Fighters usually miss their targets on expert, even the unconscious ones, so they're just punching bags throughout much of the game. And every time I play I ensure my fighters have extended weapons, such as a spear from the very start and leave them on berzerk mode 
_________________
Dame it! Hold still so I can target you! |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:30 pm |
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Bilbo
High Emperor
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 1620
Location: New York |
I'm putting my money where my mouth is: Training a bard as a tank.
Just restarted with a new party (my 4th), and am back to the 5 person front I used 2nd time through. I'm currently running: ranger, samurai, lord, monk & bard, with a bishop in the rear. Both my lord (lady, actually) & samurai are dual wielding, while the monk fights barehanded and the ranger and bard fight with single weapons. I've finished the lower monastery and am about to enter the upper.
My first party was truly the traditional 3 front, 3 back (bard not trained as a fighter). My third was one to try out some new classes and prove any party is playable (even a weak one): thief, fighter, ninja, psionic, alchemist, bishop; again run as a 3-3, but using RPCs.
_________________
The world itself shifts and changes and fades to mist like the strings of a minstrel's harp, and mayhap the dreams we forge are more enduring than the works of kings and gods.-Robert E. Howard
=Member of the RPGDot Shadows, The Nonflamers' Guild, and The Alliance of Middle Earth= |
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:58 pm |
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