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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
quote:
Originally posted by Kayla
I think any form of not paying for a game or book you use is wrong
So you think that any form of lending is wrong? You must despise libraries then  . You mean to say that it is wrong (and thus I presume you mean you would be happy for it to be illegal) for me to loan a friend anything I purchase - because anything I loan to a friend decreases the probability of another sale for the maker.
quote:
And I agree with Val, the copyright agreement is there to say you agree to the terms and conditions of use of the product.
Again, the copyright agreement is being forced upon me - I have absolutely no realistic option if I wish to use the product - I MUST agree whether I truly agree with it or not. That is a strong arm tactic - no different than holding a gun to my head. The only difference is that this strong arm tactic is supposedly legal - forced upon me by the lobbyists who have infinitely more power to sway the wording of laws than I do.
quote:
P.S Thanks for being nice Joey! 
I was a bit scared this would be me after your reply 
 Never, never be scared of words - they can only hurt you if you let them.
_________________
When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
Wed Nov 27, 2002 2:43 pm |
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Kayla
High Emperor
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 2114
Location: Australia |
[quote="Joey Nipps] So you think that any form of lending is wrong? You must despise libraries then . You mean to say that it is wrong (and thus I presume you mean you would be happy for it to be illegal) for me to loan a friend anything I purchase - because anything I loan to a friend decreases the probability of another sale for the maker.[/quote]
Libraries are legal and they are above board. My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that like video rental stores they put a lot more for the product (eg. a new realease DVD can be up to $150 AUD for a video store to buy) and they have a legal contract with the distirbutors to be able to lend the item out. They have an agreement with the makers- so if you get an agreement from the makers it is ok for you to duplicate and distribute their game for free more power to you.... I wouldn't mind being able to legally get free games. 
And it's not a case of big business wanting to get richer, it's the law.
quote:
And I agree with Val, the copyright agreement is there to say you agree to the terms and conditions of use of the product.
Again, the copyright agreement is being forced upon me - I have absolutely no realistic option if I wish to use the product - I MUST agree whether I truly agree with it or not. That is a strong arm tactic - no different than holding a gun to my head. The only difference is that this strong arm tactic is supposedly legal - forced upon me by the lobbyists who have infinitely more power to sway the wording of laws than I do.
May be a bad comparison- but I don't remember signing a contract saying if I kill someone I agree to go to jail for 20 - life.
Common sense laws are everywhere in society. There are written agreements on games saying no pirating- so by clicking the I AGREE button you are saying you agree not to. It is there in black and white, it isn't a matter of opinion or interpretation.
I think it's impolite to lie, so you are either lying by saying you agree but doing it anyway, or a thief to copy the games... that may sound a bit harsh to you, but I feel pretty strongly about it.
No, you mustn't agree. I am sure somewhere in the terms and conditions it says if you don't agree you can get take the product back to where you purchased it and get a refund.
quote:
Never, never be scared of words - they can only hurt you if you let them.
A dictionary thrown at close range can be leathal.
I just didn't want to annoy/upset/enrage anyone when I am just a village dweller and you are all productive members of the village who could banish me to a lesser communtiy. I've enjoyed my limited time here so far, and hope to have many more discussions with you about a range of topics. 
_________________
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
Robert A. Heinlein |
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Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:22 pm |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
quote:
Originally posted by xSamhainx
Its a form of bonding, a mailed warning helps only to endear you to the mailer.
Bonding - like with super glue???
_________________
When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Wed Nov 27, 2002 9:58 pm |
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Gerad
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Posts: 38
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I’ve been gone for a bit but given the passage of time it's given me a chance to reflect.
Joey has already covered much of what I would have said (probably much better than I would have anyway )
I’ve thought a little bit more about copying games, I don’t believe it's that terrible of a thing to do but there is something wrong with it. Though on small individual levels I’m not convinced. Though I can easily see the copying of games being abused to include 5 or 6 friends, there is the problem. Thats why I AM in favor of copy projection
surprised???
I was in the first place I just didn’t see my individual case of copying a few games being that bad.
It really doesn’t matter in my case it's more trouble than it's worth to copy a game you have to get a special program and a bunch of nonsense more trouble than it's worth.
I should explain myself I used to copy games back in the days when you could just take a game and a make a copy but nowadays.
I’m just realizing it's funny I even defend this issue of piracy when really it's something I’ve barely done and won’t do in the future because of the difficulty of it. And to be CLEAR this is not an attempt at spin just explaining myself.
So there you have it.
I do have say though it is strange that it is illegal??? to lend a friend a game??? that does strike me as odd, also it's sort of a foolish law, since obviously it can’t be enforced I have to wonder why they even bothered making it?
and drugs so I am to understand LSD is an inherently evil substance and should be destroyed? I think drug use is ok if it's done for religious reasons say in order to get closer to god or something. As long as the drug use doesn’t hurt anybody. maybe not LSD but shamans and whatnot used drugs to get closer to god I don’t believe their use of drugs is wrong.
Thats why blanket statements that drugs are evil don’t work. Though of course the effects of illegal drugs are 99.5% harmfull .5% ok.
I make the point about drugs because you cannot in most instances say something is 100% evil or 100% good that is true for MOST (but not all) things in this world. Which is why many issues end up being philosopical questions  |
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Thu Nov 28, 2002 7:17 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
@Gerad: I don't consider it strange for someone wanting to protect their livelihood.
As for drugs, abuse is the problem. People even abuse legal drugs (alcohol, nicotine, over-the-counter drugs, etc.). They become dependant upon them to the point where the drug dominates their life and they cannot function without it. The substance itself may not be evil, but the patterns of abuse created through the overuse of the drug can be disasterous.
LSD for example is a highly dangerous hallucinogen that can cause physical and psychological damage.
Any drug used in excess can damage you, even caffeine. Of course, you'd have to drink anywhere between 50 to 200 cups of coffee in one sitting (depending on the strength) to OD on caffeine. 
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Thu Nov 28, 2002 9:53 am |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
Aye Val, words of wisdom indeed! Anything in excess can be deemed "bad".
Some things tho, one dosage can be considered bad, if using it at all leads to some type of deterioration or permanent effect on the brain or thought process. Doesnt LSD alter the chemisty of the brain purrmanently when used? Repetitive usage of seemingly harmless illegal mind/mood altering drugs can do the same. I used to smoke pot alot during my teens, and after I quit i was still quite foggy for literally a year. I would get to the video store to take a back a movie, and have forgotten the movie. Lost my keys in my apartment every morning. Every day before work, I had to go on a "kEY hUNT". That stuff just makes you stupid and unmotivated eventually, its like early senility. Prolly a major cause of senility in older people was alot of pyschosomatic drug use at a younger age. My short term memory still evades me to this day at times.Thats the diffrence between like tobacco and alcohol and drugs like pot,speed, and acid. Yes, they are all unhealthy, but dope will render you a mental idiot or maniac unlike the "legal drugs".
_________________
“Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain |
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Fri Nov 29, 2002 10:02 am |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
It sort of depends on your current mood, mental state, individual chemestry and physical constitution. For instance, if you already suffer from a mental disease such as schizophrenia, the use of LSD can have disasterous effects because it will severly pronounce the effect of the drug and worsen the disease.
There are people who can try a dangerous drug once and walk away without any visible side effects, however those people are not the norm. And that's only visible side effects.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Fri Nov 29, 2002 9:42 pm |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
quote:
Originally posted by Val
And that's only visible side effects.
Yes, simply put ALL drugs have side effects - even those which are generally accepted (accepted medical uses) as safe. In ALL cases one must approach the use of ANY drug with the realization that there WILL be side effects and these may or may not be particularly detrimental - one must always weigh the potential benefits vs the potential negative effects of any drug (whether single use or a regimen). I have heard far, far too many people say something like: "It must be ok because my doctor prescribed it for me." - this is NOT necessarily true (doctors cannot know all the possible negative ramifications for a given patient).
_________________
When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Fri Nov 29, 2002 10:02 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
True. It's always important to read through the information the pharmacist gives you about the drug and be extremely careful when mixing drugs. Alcohol mixed with barbiturates is a quick way to kill yourself. 
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound= |
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Fri Nov 29, 2002 10:24 pm |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
quote:
Originally posted by xSamhainx
Well, caffeine is pretty non-addictive and harmless right?
Yes to addictive, no to harmless.
_________________
When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Fri Nov 29, 2002 10:47 pm |
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Kayla
High Emperor
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 2114
Location: Australia |
I think everything can be harmful if uses in excess...
Coffee- completely agree- addictive and harmful (but I still love it)
Even Panadol and headache tablets with paracetemol (I think that's how it's spelt?!?) can cause liver failure if you use more than the recommendage dosage or use it for extended periods of time.
A recent health warning says sitting a laptop on your lap for an extended period of time can cause burns- even though the base of the laptop isn't really hot....
Everything in moderation I guess.
_________________
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea.
Robert A. Heinlein |
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Sat Nov 30, 2002 12:54 am |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
quote:
Originally posted by Kayla
I think everything can be harmful if uses in excess...
Unfortunately yes. In fact (in case you didn't know) one can die from drinking too much water in a short period of time.
quote:
Coffee- completely agree- addictive and harmful (but I still love it)
Yes, I have never found (even though I have tried) another hot fluid that satisfies me like coffee (even though I am now drinking decaf).
_________________
When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Sat Nov 30, 2002 1:44 am |
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