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| Greyhawk - Do you think there'll be a sequel? |
| Of course! In fact, I see more than just one sequel in the future. |
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30% |
[ 4 ] |
| Yes, I'm confident there'll be at least one sequel and/or expansion. |
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61% |
[ 8 ] |
| No, I see this as a one time deal. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| No, who would even make this crap game...let alone a sequel? |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| I'm not sure - It's too early to tell |
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7% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 13 |
The Hurricane
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 299
Location: The Sword Coast |
| Greyhawk, will there be a sequel? |
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Hmm, I know it's too early to start whining, but I'm wondering how many of you believe there'll be a sequel to this possible ground breaking game? I personally believe all the signs are here...
- Tim Cain wants a sequel (wants to raise the level cap to 20)
- they already have a solid engine (so it seems)
- good fan support
- sequel very possible do to the Return to ToEE module
Hopefully, Atari will request a sequel, but the sequel depends on the sales. I'm 70% sure there'll be one...I could easily see ToEE's engine becoming the next infinity engine spawning many glorious offspring. However, it could just as easily flop. (I doubt it  ) So what do all of you think?
_________________
= Member of The Nonflamers' Guild =
= Member of The Alliance of Middle-Earth =
= Not just a member, but a client of The Followers of Righteousness =
"Stand back...there's a hurricane coming through..." |
Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:25 pm |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
I'm not sure - It's too early to tell.
Since Tim already said that they're willing to do a sequel, so now the whole thing is depend on the sales, and then the game itself (good, mediocre, bad).
I hope the game will be good, after the disappointing Lionheart. |
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Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:41 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Most D&D games series come in Trilogies. I have no doubt, if this is done well, that there will be a sequel.
Temple of Elemental Evil was designed around level 3 to 10 play and Return to The Temple of Elemental Evil was a campaign setting, in theory, but in fact worked best if you were level 11+. Coincidence? I think not. Then again, it's probably too huge to convert.
In any case I have no doubt there will be at least one sequel. The reason D&D games recently aren't having a lot of sequels is because people demand complete campaign adventures.
If you recall the gold box series... they didn't labor under this constraint.
Pools of Radiance was levels 1 to 6
Curse of the Azure Bonds was level 5 to 11
Secret of the Silver Blades was level 10 to 15
Pools of Darkness was level 15+ (game hard coded to stop at about 40)
Now people want their "I'm just a farmer!" (level 1) to end the game as "I am the greatest swordsman who ever lived." (level 20).
3.0 rapid leveling assists this. It's why they had to dumb the experience down to 10% of what you get in real D&D per fight. It takes 260 well balanced fights to become level 20 in D&D 3.0
A computer could whip through that in under five hours, no problem.
What the heck do you do for the OTHER 45 hours of play, then?
It's because 3.0 focuses more on the characters. There's no imperitus to do 10 fights a night... one now, every once in a while, is enough. Leaves more time for roleplaying, if people so choose.
Or you can do 10 fights a night and become level 20 in two or three months. Or sooner if the fights are challenging.
But it doesn't make for thrilling action oriented computer games.
Dumb it down to 10%, throw 2600 fights at the party instead. Even diablo fans say that's pretty tame (and it is... in D2 I probably fought more than that in an hour).
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:06 pm |
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Seth
Last Man Standing
Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Posts: 1008
Location: Faerun |
Of course all depend on how well the game will sell, but as you can see the game receives very good feedback plus there is lots of fans support. I believe we will see the sequel, although I’m not that optimistic as Xen (trilogy??).
_________________
Money - An article which may be used as a universal passport to everywhere except heaven, and as a universal provider of everything except happiness. |
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Thu Sep 11, 2003 8:20 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
Absolutely. Not a shadow of doubt.
Tim has dropped every hint in the book including saying it would be a shame to use the technology for only one game.
Obviously the final decision rests with Atari and depends on sales but consider this: ToEE was developed in 20 months which is a very tight schedule. Although they had already done a lot of work with the engine they would have had in incorporate the D&D rules, probably the party system, all the art etc. For a sequel such as Return to ToEE, the rules are there and a lot of art could be recycled = a development time of 12-18 months tops. It won't take huge sales for that to still be worthwhile.
I expect that planning is well underway. |
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Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:45 am |
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greyskull
Village Dweller
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 17
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it seems to me, if Tim thinks they will make a sequel that is a great sign for ToEE... they dont make to many sequels for unsuccessful games, and i think Troika has made enough games to know a hit when they make one... i sure hope this game lives up to expectations, it seems like people are really starting to expect a lot from it... i know my expectations seem to rise with every positive review i read |
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Fri Sep 12, 2003 3:31 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I am expecting it to be the biggest load of buggy, constantly crashing, low quality, hack job crap to ever be published... just so I don't get my hopes up.
That way if it is I am not surprised, angry, dissappointed, bitter, or spiteful.
And if it's not I can enjoy it all the more.
Putting something ordinary on a pedestal so high that you need a ladder to reach it doesn't change the fact that when you reach it there is every possibility that it's just an ordinary item sitting on a pedestal, no different than any ordinary item not sitting on the pedestal. But since you had to work so hard to get to it that is not sufficient and someone will pay for that.
So it is in all things, but particularly in CRPGs (and MMORPGs).
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:28 pm |
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greyskull
Village Dweller
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 17
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wow everythingxen, you sure have a sunny disposition today!  I agree that many games fall short of our lofty expectations, especially once all the glowing reviews start coming out, and we have the designers promising us the world... i dont really get that feelling from toee, they dont seem to be promising us the world, just a concept that has a lot of people intrigued (me included) it is the games that promise unforseen graphics and player optoins galore that often come out buggy and dissapoint... |
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Fri Sep 12, 2003 1:58 pm |
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Seth
Last Man Standing
Joined: 23 Jan 2002
Posts: 1008
Location: Faerun |
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
I am expecting it to be the biggest load of buggy, constantly crashing, low quality, hack job crap to ever be published... just so I don't get my hopes up.
That way if it is I am not surprised, angry, dissappointed, bitter, or spiteful.
And if it's not I can enjoy it all the more.
Putting something ordinary on a pedestal so high that you need a ladder to reach it doesn't change the fact that when you reach it there is every possibility that it's just an ordinary item sitting on a pedestal, no different than any ordinary item not sitting on the pedestal. But since you had to work so hard to get to it that is not sufficient and someone will pay for that.
So it is in all things, but particularly in CRPGs (and MMORPGs).
Man, I hate you when you are right, and making to much sense.
_________________
Money - An article which may be used as a universal passport to everywhere except heaven, and as a universal provider of everything except happiness. |
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Fri Sep 12, 2003 4:35 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
@Seth - he has an annoying habit of doing that on a regular basis. Really gets to you doesn't it?
_________________
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Just plain clueless= |
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Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:49 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I'm a critic. Cynicism breeds impartiality. Nobody wants to read a review written by a rabid fanboy except other rabid fanboys... but they already have the game so they have no need to read reviews.
Computer game wise it takes a lot to get to me or turn me off a game. Sometimes a question what a game would have to do to get a zero in my books.
Ruins of Myth Drannor comes readily to mind but I could never write a review on it. It holds the title of being a game I was so sickenly dissappointed in I couldn't bring myself to finish. Pretty rare for me... but I would have turned down the review had it been offered to me for that reason, rather than submit a half-played "It sucks! It sucks! Oh god it burns!" flamefest review.
In any case, let's just see how the first one works out before speculating on a second Greyhawk module. I'm certain there will be a sequel but only the sales will tell for certain.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Sat Sep 13, 2003 2:58 am |
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The Hurricane
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 299
Location: The Sword Coast |
Well, I pre-ordered today at EB...I should have my copy on the 24th(according to Mr. EB man)...but now Atari says it ships on the 16th? Hmm...
@Xen
I very well know this game could flop...it could be a pile of hype. I remember the last crpg I pre-ordered...anticipated this game for over six months, and you know what it had the nerve to do? Just be a decent game. Morrowind. OK, I still play MW from time to time, but MW in no way lived up to its hype. It was huge and non-linear, but where was the atmosphere Daggerfall had? Did Bethesda even play Gothic before going gold? Oh well, NWN, a game I didn't follow... ironically, came out and it was all good.
IMHO, there are very few crpgs this decade that have lived up to the hype: BG2, Gothic, KoTOR, Gothic 2, NWN....can't think of anymore. (hopefully ToEE  ) Thank goodness I waited for a review of Lionheart.
Anyways, I'm just ranting, but I think this game will be more than ordinary...let's hope Troika doesn't prove me wrong. However, the last game I pre-ordered was great fun - Rise of Nations - So, maybe I developed a sense on these type of things. 
Anyways Xen, maybe this will become your new "all time favorite game" ...gotta look on the bright side.
_________________
= Member of The Nonflamers' Guild =
= Member of The Alliance of Middle-Earth =
= Not just a member, but a client of The Followers of Righteousness =
"Stand back...there's a hurricane coming through..." |
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Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:40 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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At least until something better comes along. 
That's why I hestitate at labeling anything 'the best' or 'perfect', etc. There will always be something better.
Though I'm still waiting for a game with a story as well written and characters as deep as Planescape Torment (The Quest For Glory series as a whole is a close second)...
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:38 pm |
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Lord_Brownie
High Emperor
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Unfashionable arm of the spiral galaxy |
When I get payed next i'll pick up a copy. Too early to say if there will be a seq., butI suppect if player feed back is postive, along with strong sells, a seq. deal will be down in a few weeks or sooner after release. One of the screen shots shows a crayfish fight, I cant wait for that! Reminds me there was once something to fight in D&D other than dragons, rats, and kobolds. Not that I have been following the game closely, I would like there to be lots of new things to see and suprises, so I have been fighitng not reading about the game or looking a screen shots for months.
LB |
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Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:01 pm |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
I will be surprised if TOEE failed spectacularly, which is very, very unlikely. I bet in the worst case the game would be mediocre, not a game that everything falling apart and come crashing down on your head. I mean this is Tim Cain we are talking about for christ's sake. He was overseeing the development of TOEE and i'll be damned if he didn't know what makes a good CRPG.
If i'm correct while Arcanum gotten itself mixed responds, it's mostly because of weakness in implementation, not the ideas of the game. The Arcanum team mostly make up from relatively fresh people except Timmy himself a veteran CRPG maker. With experiences gathered from making Arcanum and on using Arcanum engine (renewed for TOEE), TOEE would be more likely a solid game.
I bet the overall reviewer scores would be around 80-90%. |
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Sat Sep 13, 2003 6:39 pm |
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