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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
I bought Sacred Undergound recenlty. It waited on my shelf for few months and then I installed it. What a surprise when StarForce CD protection complained that I don't have correct CD in driver.
I've tried everything they suggested, all new drivers (including chipset), StarForce removal tool and so on. Uninstalling everything anyone anywhere mentioned that could cause trouble (really a long list). No luck...
You have 2 months to return game here. It waited on my shelf a bit longer, so now I'm stuck with something I bought and I cannot use.
I'm not asking here for your help with my Sacred problem. Give me your opinion on the CD protection systems.
I think they only affect people who really buy the game. Those who want to steal it, will do so and won't even know that there was any CD protection (hacker or whoever will take care...).
I don't like the idea of some secret CD protection driver being installed on my PC. When I read the first tip how to solve the problem - "Shut down all background programs, including anti-virus", I was thinking they are joking. Why the hell should I shut down my anti-virus protection? |
Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:37 am |
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txa1265
Magister of the Light
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 390
Location: Marlborough, MA USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Danicek
Give me your opinion on the CD protection systems.
Well ...
quote:
Originally posted by Danicek
I think they only affect people who really buy the game.
That basically says it - it is us honest gamers who pay the price for the pirates and the publisher's lame attempts to stop them.
Look at Sony - they have pioneered much of the anti-consumer disk protection stuff. The fact that you can't rip many of their CD's to iTunes for either home or iPod use just begs for pirating the stuff. Of course, the whole rootkit thing recently is even worse....
Mike
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Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:03 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
Sorry to hear the game doesn´t run.  Starforce is incompatible to a few drives, maybe you have one of those.
I understand the publishers´ desire and need to protect their property. In many countries, including Germany, people will copy something if they can get it for free. What I don´t understand, though, is why publishers are using so powerful anti-piracy measures. Who is the target? Crackers won´t buy their games and casual gamers don´t evn know how to bypass simple CP, so Starforce is unnecessary.
I´m quite happy that "CP problem" or "it doesn´t run" count as technical problems in Germany and that you can easily get a refund.
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Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:35 pm |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
I solved the problem by removing temporalily one of my harddrivers which caused different letter to be assigned to CD driver and that caused succesful verification of Sacred Underworld.
Great isn't it? :] |
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Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:12 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
This is a complex issue and I certainly don't have the answers. Yes, CP only affects the honest purchasers, which sucks. I can understand the reasons for using StarForce, especially for smaller projects - it does take longer to break or the workarounds are ridiculously complex and that maintains the market for those crucial early weeks.
Personally, I'm all for online verification but I know plenty of people dislike that - perhaps even more than SF.
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Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:12 am |
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green |
I hate any kind of copy protection to be honest. As previously stated, it only hurts the consumers.
I do prefer online verification over copy protection. But I have two major concerns with it:
1. Steam like problems with high demand on verification servers.
2. What happens 5-10yrs from now when I get nostalgic, want to play my game but it wont install because the verification servers no longer exist?
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Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:10 pm |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
quote:
Originally posted by Chekote
2. What happens 5-10yrs from now when I get nostalgic, want to play my game but it wont install because the verification servers no longer exist?
That is a good point that have never come on my mind.
I doubt someone will support old game and btw also some developers/distributors have short life. |
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Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:26 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
I also think online verification is the way to go, although it´s a pretty complex topic.
The "old games" issue can be resolved if the publisher releases a patch to remove the activation when the game no longer earns money.
The problem with devs/pubs going bankrupt spontaneously can be made more harmless if the activation process is outsourced to a small independent company without legal connection to the publisher. This would probably even be the most cost effective solution.
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Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:31 am |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
quote:
Originally posted by Gorath
The problem with devs/pubs going bankrupt spontaneously can be made more harmless if the activation process is outsourced to a small independent company.
Hm, that might be good idea for new small company :].
* Imagination - Seeing my self sitting in big lether chair of GlobActComp (Global Activation Company), the worlds leader in online activation outsourcing as its founder, owner and president. *
Possibly this is not what you ment by small independent company ;]. |
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Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:49 am |
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piln
High Emperor
Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 906
Location: Leeds, UK |
Danicek, if you (or anyone else) are still having problems with Starforce, I read recently that if you contact them directly (here's their website) and they can't get the game to run on your system, they'll enable you to bypass the protection and run the game without it. They've been getting a lot of flak recently, as well as the purchased games not working there have been problems with SF disabling other apps like Nero, so I think this is the least they should do.
I can understand the benefits SF and software like it gives to publishers & developers, but in terms of fair use it's totally overstepped the mark IMO. I'm opposed to it, but I really don't know what stance to take: simply boycotting the games is a useless reaction, as it harms the developers most of all (when it's most likely that the use of SF was not their decision) - that's just as inefficient and misguided an approach as the protection itself. But I have a feeling we can complain all we like and publishers will simply ignore us (and the unfortunate few who can't play the game they paid for) as long as the games are selling. |
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Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:11 pm |
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cptmaxon
High Emperor
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 557
Location: Israel |
frankly while I understand the desire to protect thier product from theft, the ones that are hit are the consumers, the ppl who are actully paying for the products get games that just doesn't want to work on thier system because some paramater in thier programing isn't met, I had this sort of problem with the german NoTR and my UK gothic2 version, I had to close all the programs in the background to install the game because it kept insisting the disk in the drive isn't genuine.
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Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:56 pm |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
It seems that facts are clear to everyone with the exception of publishers. That is strange because what they are looking for are money and I think their investments into buying SF are money thrown out of window. |
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Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:06 pm |
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green |
quote:
Originally posted by Gorath
The "old games" issue can be resolved if the publisher releases a patch to remove the activation when the game no longer earns money.
You seriously believe they are going to invest time and money in making a patch to support a game that no longer sells? If online activation becomes more prevelant then its just gonna push more people into the pirate scene as they search for hacks to get their old games working again.
Thats the most ironic thing that publishers dont seem to understand. Customers either get pissed and return the game, or they download illegal patches to make their *legitimate* game work.
Publishers are not only hurting customers, but themselves also. They are so disconected from the industry that they service, that they have no idea how to exist within it.
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IMHO my opinion is humble |
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Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:20 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by Chekote
You seriously believe they are going to invest time and money in making a patch to support a game that no longer sells? If online activation becomes more prevelant then its just gonna push more people into the pirate scene as they search for hacks to get their old games working again.
Wrong angle. I expect them to include it into the budget from the very beginning. When the game costs less than 10$ they can remove the activation to take load off the activation servers. Then they can use them for the next game.
quote:
Publishers are not only hurting customers, but themselves also. They are so disconected from the industry that they service, that they have no idea how to exist within it.
The big publishers are through with SP PC gaming. They take what they can but their main focus is on consoles.
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Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:21 pm |
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green |
quote:
Originally posted by Gorath
Wrong angle. I expect them to include it into the budget from the very beginning. When the game costs less than 10$ they can remove the activation to take load off the activation servers. Then they can use them for the next game.
That makes sense, and is fair, which is exactly why then won't do it. There are a few problems with that:
1. The publishers will worry the patch will get leaked early.
2. They need to rely on customers to patch their games.
3. Its expensive.
A far cheaper and more likely solution is to simply setup a DNS CName record for the activation server for each game, and simply delete the record once they no longer want to support the game. No DNS record, no contacting the servers! Simple, cheap and clean. Just like the Ivory Tower occupants like it.
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IMHO my opinion is humble |
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Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:25 pm |
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