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Korzen
Forsaken
Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 3673
Location: The User Groups Section. |
I'm going to cry  |
Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:03 pm |
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DzD
Unknown
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 7140
Location: Sweden |
Does it matter if piracy will allways exist? You can still be a better citizen and buy the games. Or do you want to close the whole gaming industry? Seems like it...
_________________
There once was a youngster, DzD
Whose avatars numbered infinity
But I must admit
His latest, a hit
Cuz the Little One's a mystery to me
Written by - dteowner |
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Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:03 pm |
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Korzen
Forsaken
Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 3673
Location: The User Groups Section. |
I hope darkfall is gone for good. |
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Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:05 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Yes, your arrogance at thinking you can get away with anything. Your arrogance in mocking those who do obey the law. Your arrogance in thinking you are somehow special and that the law does not apply to you.
Now I hope they implement all of those features and put your life under a microscope. Unlike you, I have nothing to hide.
Your case is a sham and I'm happy you're taking it elsewhere, because I'm sick of the same old line of garbage.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:07 pm |
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Roach
SBR Belfry Bat
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 3233
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quote:
Originally posted by Korzen
Oh boy, this is leading to nowhere.
That may be so, but we hit upon the moderators pet issue. If it were about religion or Iraq I would be one running around with a big sword, or hammer, trying to smite everyone.
@Darkfall14 A few years ago when I was about 15-16 I thought the same thing, that it was OK to download games that I wouldn’t otherwise buy. But at some point I realized that is just a rationalization I used because I wanted the games and didn’t want to pay for them. It is stealing and it is wrong. I’m not saying it is wrong because of any religious ideals, of all the people on this board I’m one of, if not the person(s), who argues the most adamantly against following organized religions blindly. You said earlier that you thought stealing physical property is wrong, but not downloading/pirating games, so it seems that the thing you’re arguing is not that there is nothing wrong with stealing, but that you don’t see intellectual property as real property. Copyright is something that has recently become very important to me do to the fact that I am trying to peruse a career as a professional writer. Because of this I can tell you that creating something as simple as words on a page, or lines of code, can be just a difficult as creating something with your hands. Therefore it deserves to be protected by the same laws as physical property.
And by the way, I personally find your comments about the meaning of freedom being that laws you disagree with are thrown out offensive. Freedom is not about setting your own laws, it’s about maintaining personal and human rights, (stealing is not a right) it’s about the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Not an excuse to not be held responsible for your actions. You certainly have the right to say what you wish, but I ask that in the spirit of consideration for others, you stop making such offensive comments misusing and cheapening the meaning of the word Freedom. |
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Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:14 pm |
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Darkfall14
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 07 Apr 2002
Posts: 32
Location: the realm of the amish... |
sorry for responding after i "left" this discussion...i do admit cockroach, that we have a different view of freedom...i do appriciate your being civil....i apologize for not stating my full view of freedom...once again, freedom is interpreted differently by many different people...i guess i was caught up with fustration by people misinterpreting what i was saying...now that all has been fixed, ill talk to you guys later.... |
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Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:30 pm |
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Gerad
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 20 Jul 2002
Posts: 38
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All answers to questions are received seems we have a programmer in our midst
I can understand the fervor of defense of this issue now, is a fireman going to hate arsonists
Also in order to save my own dignity I don’t support that other guy darkfall's comments.
I sincerely hope you wouldn’t want a person's hand cut off for copying a video game, I hope we can least agree on this issue the penalty would be to pay a fine.
and this is to you VAL just because someone disagrees with your views doesn’t make them bad , or even wrong I hope you wouldn’t ban a person for simply disagreeing with you, or being arrogant as you say.
The truth is we cannot resolve the conflict here, in the end it amounts what a person’s definition of stealing is. I for one don’t consider copying a friend’s videogame theft.
In my opinion theft is taking something from someone without paying for it. Nothing is stolen since the game is bought and paid for. Only in the abstract sense is there a theft.
It’s my belief that once you have bought something you may do whatever you want with what you have bought. Though the law doesn`t always agree with my belief I`ll admit.
And before more legal nonsense is thrown at me I agree that UNDER THE LAW making a copy of videogame is a violation of copyright law. So I guess that makes me a thief UNDER THE LAW, no excuses I`ll agree to that.
though it amounts to a philosophical question in the end. Rather or not you have the law on you side, simply because the law says something does not make it correct, there are laws banning the use of drugs however is drug use wrong in the deepest sense? yet another philosophical question.
Laws are made by the powerful for the powerful’s interest the law may say that copying a game is theft that I do not disagree with however is making a copy of something truly theft??? That is a philosophical question and is really a matter of opinion.
That is what interesting about this world everyone is different we have different opinions and points of view. There are people who have views which are repugnant to me, but I would rather have a world with a variety of opinions then a boring one where everyone thinks the same and I hope the rest of you would at least agree to that! |
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Sun Nov 24, 2002 1:33 am |
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DzD
Unknown
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 7140
Location: Sweden |
quote:
Originally posted by Gerad
and this is to you VAL just because someone disagrees with your views doesn’t make them bad , or even wrong I hope you wouldn’t ban a person for simply disagreeing with you, or being arrogant as you say.
I don't agree with everything she thinks, and I'm not close to be banned. And she hasn't said that he is bad because he doesn't agree with her, she said he is bad because he is breaking the law. Don't draw conclusions that is not based on fact.
_________________
There once was a youngster, DzD
Whose avatars numbered infinity
But I must admit
His latest, a hit
Cuz the Little One's a mystery to me
Written by - dteowner |
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Sun Nov 24, 2002 1:43 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
Two quick points:
@Darkfall14 - your comparison of game prices to movies doesn't work very well. There are a number of movies that have topped $1 Billion in international box office, so a movie maker can make a *very* good return from $8. A game is a *massive* hit if it exceeds 1 million copies - that's around $50 million revenue and many games are lucky to break 100k copies. BTW, a movie maker gets a second go with video/DVD sales - and even then the DVD can cost as much as budget game titles.
@Gerad, the problem with doing whatever you like with something you've bought is that this thinking comes from tangible products: you can't just copy a video card or CPU chip and give it to your mate. So different logic and rules must apply for a product that *can* be copied; it's not the CD disk the programmer cares about but the content. Imagine if your friend (who bought the disk) has a *lot* of friends. By your logic, when has he affected the programmers right to get paid for his work? After he copies it for 2 friends? 20? 100? It's his disk to to do with as he pleases, right? By extension then, you would agree it's OK if only one person paid for the game and we all copied it after that - they got paid for it, didn't they?
Oops, I really did intend this to be quick. Sorry!
Ed: sp |
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Sun Nov 24, 2002 1:55 am |
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Gothic Soul
Master of Shadows
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 682
Location: Underdark |
SUch a waste of money for bill gates to do that so called palladium you think chinese people will buy the programs anyway???  And I don't know what the hell is going on with Bill Gates can't he realize that he's the biggest pirate in the World. Please beg for somebody who can throw MICROSOFT TO THE GROUND. He's living so far from the earth.
SORRY I JUST NEEDED TO LET IT GO OUT.
_________________
"Whow, the necromancer is here" -Bartacus to myself |
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Sun Nov 24, 2002 6:55 am |
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Roach
SBR Belfry Bat
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 3233
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OK, I’m willing to drop the piracy thing, but someone hit on a core issue for me so even if it is off the topic I want to comment.
quote:
Originally posted by Gerad
though it amounts to a philosophical question in the end. Rather or not you have the law on you side, simply because the law says something does not make it correct, there are laws banning the use of drugs however is drug use wrong in the deepest sense? yet another philosophical question.
Is drug use wrong in the deepest sense? With marijuana being a possible exception, Yes! Drugs destroy a lot of good people, often young people who are having problems handling the stresses in their lives and only what to make their problems go away for an hour or so. But they end up loosing any hope of a decent life because they simply didn’t know better. Even if you don’t become hopelessly addicted, simply buying them helps finance the growers, distributes, chemists, and dealers helping them to distribute truly massive amounts of these terrible mixtures. And the only way we can win the war on drugs is to eliminate the demand for them to the point where they become no longer profitable to produce. So yes, using them is wrong even in moderation because it helps fund the creation of more. |
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Sun Nov 24, 2002 2:38 pm |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
quote:
Originally posted by Dhruin
@Gerad, the problem with doing whatever you like with something you've bought is that this thinking comes from tangible products: you can't just copy a video card or CPU chip and give it to your mate. So different logic and rules must apply for a product that *can* be copied; it's not the CD disk the programmer cares about but the content. Imagine if your friend (who bought the disk) has a *lot* of friends.
Suppose I buy a CD (DVD, book, etc.), enjoy it and then "loan" it to a friend? And another friend and another. Anything wrong there - same basic concept. Don't I have the right to do this (or shouldn't I in case this is technically illegal in some countries)?
The general rule of thumb has been (at least in the US) for some time - you can do as you wish with the product you buy as long as you don't make (or intend to make) a profit from it. So if I buy a CD and then copy it to give to a friend - what is wrong here - it is not really different than loaning it to him? How about if I make mp3 files of the songs to put on my computer and then loan the CD to him - how about that? I think we have to be very careful what we wish to call theft (and thus illegal) or we will end up with no rights to purchased items at all.
Yes, you are right - we have to worry about a person extending this to copying the CD 50000 times to give to 50000 of his close friends - but I think we all know this is a flacid arguement at best - it must be handled in a different manner.
_________________
When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Sun Nov 24, 2002 4:57 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
@Joey, I understand your point and this is a complex area. But I do see a specific difference, albeit subtle. Lending the original means the purchaser no longer enjoys the benefit of listening to that music while making a copy means two people are receiving the benefit at the same time. |
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Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:18 am |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
Hey Gothic, guess what? There are a great many people who have already tried to wipe out MS. And they failed! In the process, they sent the entire tech sector plummeting. That's what I found kinda amusing. All these other companies thinking they could simply take out MS, with very little effect on themselves or the industry. Quite the contrary happened. Alot of smaller tech companies ended up being heavily damaged or wiped out themselves. They wanted Gates' head, and ended up instead having theirs handed to them. You cant just try to eliminate the biggest widget maker in the world, and expect the widget market to do anything but plummet. Been there Gothic, done that, it doesnt work.
"Just get rid of the browser!" you may scream. So some companies are only allowed to market and sell one core product? "I think its really funny how people want to tell a hamburger company they cant sell fries with their burgers", thats what comparison Gates himself used and I think its dead-on right.
_________________
“Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain |
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Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:50 am |
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Gothic Soul
Master of Shadows
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 682
Location: Underdark |
I was angry by the time I wrote that but soon Bill Gate will be Forgotten. 
_________________
"Whow, the necromancer is here" -Bartacus to myself |
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Mon Nov 25, 2002 3:33 am |
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