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Archaven
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 30
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Few Questions
1. Is it worth pumping close combat skills for my monk? I used to pump Martial Arts, Critical
Strike and Close Combat. Have i pumped the wrong skills?
2. I used to pump strength, speed and dexterity for my monk. Am i doing the right thing?
3. Where can i find information on the correct way on pumping my individual characters? For eg.
what main attributes and skills should i pump my fighter, monk, ranger, etc?
4. Also where can i find info on how to effectively pump my priest and mage?
Thanks |
Sun Feb 02, 2003 9:57 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
otter understands the game mechanics a little better than the rest of us here (20+ wins will do that for you), but I can give you some answers based on my experiences.
First, check out the FAQ we put together since it will give some hints, as well as some links. You'd be well-served by visiting Jandrall's site for the class spotlights. Those spotlights are well-written and very thorough.
The way you're building your monk is similar to the way I develop mine. Monks are my favorite class in Wiz8 because of the multiple attacks, each with a chance for a critical. My philosophy is to hit early and often, so I max speed and dex pretty quickly, with strength and senses getting points next. Otter will say (and he's right, technically) that boosting speed beyond 50 or so gains you very little, but I always did it anyway.
If, after checking out the FAQ, you have more questions, ask away! It's good to see some fresh blood on the board.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Sun Feb 02, 2003 1:44 pm |
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Archaven
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 30
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Jandrall's site is great for the class info. Thanks dteowner. Btw, are there news of a new wizardry game? If so, hopefully they make the intro and cut scenes better. There are still rooms for improvement. The graphics aren't bad but not cutting edge either. |
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Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:13 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
Chances of a Wiz9 are slim at best. Sir-Tech went out of business (at least effectively) about the same time Wiz8 was released. I read that the design team scattered after that, although they recently announced they were all together and ready to go. They landed at Strategy First and supposedly were working on Jagged Alliance 3 when Strategy First went thru a major layoff. Most of the Wiz8 team was axed.
Soooo, at this time, there's no plan for a Wiz9, although I keep hoping some kind of miracle occurs.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:47 pm |
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Archaven
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 30
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Well I guessed the Wizardry series are much of the same boat with the Might and Magic series. It's just sad to hear how a good series ended..
Btw, thanks for the site mentions. However, I could not find the spotlight for pure spellcasters such as Priest and Mage. Kindly inform me if you have. Thanks |
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Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:34 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
One critical difference between Wiz and M&M- Wiz8 was a beautiful swan song while MM9 was a disgrace to a once-glorious series.
I don't think Altus did spotlights on the pure casters since they're pretty straight-forward. Again, you'll get a little variety depending on how each player likes to play the game, but a few things are common. Max the relevant spell skill (will for div casters, sense for psi casters, and int for wiz and alch casters). Maxxing int for the power cast skill comes second. Then it's either willpower or speed. I prefer more spell points, so I go will. Some think casting first is more valuable (a valid position), so they pump speed or senses next to improve their initiative.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:51 pm |
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Archaven
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 30
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Hi again.I have been restarting the games 4-5 times now solely because i think that Im not
doing the right thing(pumping the neccessary attributes and skill points). Also, I have in
doubt on what character classes to choose from. My first game party is Fighter, Lord, Monk,
Ranger, Priest and Mage. I found that the Lord are truly an awsome weak fighter (always
misses out or deals little damage) and thus I replaced the Lord with a Rogue. But then,
again I have some doubts. Is it NECESSARY to place the Rogue in the frontliner to use the
Backstab ability? I read it from the Rogue's spotlight from Jandrall's site.
Also, i spotted that having a Monk is a total waste of space since there is a high-level
NPC monk that can be recruited fairly early in the game. So if i were to dump that monk,
what should i replace him with? Thanks for the patience. |
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Sun Feb 02, 2003 5:12 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
OK let's see here...
I am the reigning King of Restarts here, so trust me when I say you have a long way to go before you're in my league.  Your target should you wish to challenge me- 3 wins, 2 Rifts (that will make sense to you eventually), and 60+ Arnika-or-less.
If this is your first time thru, I'd recommend the following party. That's not to say this is the only way to go or anything, just a good starting point.
Pick one: Mage, psionic (psi more interesting, but not as good)
Pick one: Priest, bishop (bishop more powerful, but difficult to develop)
Pick one: Rogue, bard, gadgeteer (if you're running v1.2.4, NOT rogue)
Take one: Ranger (yep, just that, trust me, and use his alchemy!)
Pick two: Fighter, monk, samurai, lord, valk (valk adds the least, lord is the hardest to develop, fighter is powerful but vanilla)
A rogue can backstab from anywhere his weapons will reach (which is usually close range).
I (and most of the "sages" here) do not like using RPCs. It's a personal preference thing for the most part, and I don't like to mess with my meticulously designed party. One thing to keep in mind is that there are places in Wiz8 that RPCs don't like to go. So for instance, picking up the RPC Valk is fine until you want to go to the Rift. She won't want to go there, which means she'll miss out on lots of XP the party picks up, which means when you get her back, she won't be as strong as the rest of the party any more. (Aside to the other "sages"- yes, there's ways to sneak around a lot of that, but let's not confuse him just yet)
Hope this helps some.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Sun Feb 02, 2003 6:49 pm |
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otter
One of Us
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 1337
Location: Portland, OR |
I've found development to be pretty basic; Dex always 3 to 100 (you'll hit more and be hit less) and Str/Vit for anyone who's gonna fight (everyone in most of my--4 char or fewer--parties); then when Dex is max, str/vit/sen, except for the designated Haster, who gets Spd. Vit over 80 doesn't do much, esp if you have some of the Regen items. Casters don't need Int to make them better, unless you're going for Powercast on a Mage, Bish or Sam.
Your party should be OK, but i don't know what you did with the Lord to make it weak--Lord is one of my faves. They don't need as much Vit (they got HP regen), and i never waste on Pie, so thier Str can get up there pretty fast; that and Dex and they should be clobbering handily...and their Dual bonus is really nice. HINT--give them a mace and a hammer as soon as you can! A mace might do less damage, but they KO nice, esp once your Str gets over 70, and you can have the same weapon class in both hands.
Skill points: i usually build one close weapon and one range weapon, and Crit for those with it, or whatever skill each char has special--magic, Dual, etc. Close and Ranged Combat build themselves pretty fast, so i only start loading them when my weapons are over 75.
Casters: i usually have only hybrids or a Bishop, and practise out of combat a lot to develop their magic skills. For a MAge, i think i like Hobbit the best, mostly because you get to start with so much Dex, Spd, and Sen, and still have enough for lots of Int if you're shooting for Powercast. And for Priest, i like the Dwarven damage and fire resistances, but i don't like the low Dex and Spd, so i prefer the Rawulf.
_________________
If thousand-year-old family traditions are so important to you, why do you have indoor plumbing and electricity in your family's house? |
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Sun Feb 02, 2003 7:12 pm |
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Bilbo
High Emperor
Joined: 12 Mar 2002
Posts: 1620
Location: New York |
Some comments on party composition:
The "basic" party that came with the demo: Fighter, ranger, monk, priest, bard, mage. A good choice you won't go wrong with. Many people here won the game with a similar party.
My first party: Substitute lord for fighter. This is a throwback to Wiz7, as I imported them (the lord had "diplomacy" skill, which is no longer a factor in Wiz8). It's certainly not a must. Any of fighter / lord / ninja / samurai / monk (second) / ranger (second) / valkyrie [i.e. real hybrid fighter] will work fine as a third "tank", although ninjas are harder to develop. I had no problem developing my lord, but others here think they are harder.
Yes, there is a monk NPC, but it's not the same as having your own. When I replayed it for the second time, the monk was the only character class I used again.
Another easy change: substitute the gadgeteer for the bard. This comes down to a matter of personal preference. In terms of magic, my feeling is that the bard was stronger for most of the game, but the gadgie got more powerful towards the end. But this also was counterbalanced by the fact that I made my gadgie into a mean swordsman who would have slaughtered my bard in hand-to-hand combat.
Once you get used to the game, bishops aren't hard to develop. But you may want to hold off trying one until you get a better feel for the game. The manual actually suggests a 2 bishop party, although I never tried that (that's for my next go round, when I go with only a party of 4!). If you go with 2 bishops, the suggestion is to develop one towards priest/psionic and the other towards mage/alchemist.
If you're looking for more of a challenge, I'd recommend: samurai, ranger, monk, valkyrie, gadgie, bishop. [I played this second time through with a ninja instead of a ranger. But as Dteowner correctly stated, you want a ranger first time through.] Weaker in the beginning than the basic party, but stronger in the end. The more hybrid classes in your party, the weaker they are to start, but the stronger they are to finish.
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=Member of the RPGDot Shadows, The Nonflamers' Guild, and The Alliance of Middle Earth= |
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Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:47 pm |
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Archaven
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 30
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Thanks for all these suggestions. Frankly, for all my restarts, I used all character races
as human and elf (in all other games as well except Bg2 where you don't have a full party
creation). I am using human or elf principally because of their portraits and Im using
alot of females characters because of their pretty look  . I am aware of the character
class bonusses but i dislike the character look for the rest of the races  . I know it's
possible to have a "human" look dracon or fellpurr .. But again i think that's a bit weird
or somehow cheating. Am i missing out alot of the bonusses for the character races?
To dteowner: I am still having doubts on effectively developing my priest and mage. I know
it's quite straight-forward to develop these spellcasters but i really do not hope that
i do something silly again nor do i wish to restart again. So the attributes points that
I have to pump my priest will be Piety and Intelligence for my Mage. Right? What other
attributes are necessary for me to pump my spellcasters? Dexterity? Does dexterity increases
the chance to hit with spells? Speed for the initiatives? Or senses? What skills are for the
Priest and Mages?
Again, thanks for your patience. |
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Mon Feb 03, 2003 4:07 am |
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Archaven
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 30
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Sorry I missed out something. Why NOT Rogue if i have the v1.24 patch? Was that because of the pickpocket thing?
Thanks |
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Mon Feb 03, 2003 4:43 am |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
quote:
Originally posted by Archaven
Sorry I missed out something. Why NOT Rogue if i have the v1.24 patch? Was that because of the pickpocket thing?
Thanks
Yes. A bard or gadgeteer can open locks and disarm traps just as well as the rogue, and have other skills to offer. The rogue offers pickpocket, but the final patch really made PP hazardous at best.
On the races, humans work well enough in all classes. If you want a human party, feel free to do so. Some races are better suited for certain classes than humans (such as rawulf priests), which allow you to end up with a higher score (piety in this example) at level one. That's an advantage, but not something you can't overcome with time.
I'd recommend that you have at least one male in your party. It's not necessary, but it will make one optional part of the game go a little smoother for you. Besides, the male voice options are a lot better than the female ones...
otter's wealth of experience allows him to do things a little different skill- and ability-wise than the rest of us. His approach is mathematically superior to any other I've seen, so you can't go wrong with his advice. My approach is a little simpler, but ends up being a little wasteful. I think otter spelled out his plan pretty well, so I'll toss out mine here and you can try whatever you wish.
Mage- Max Int ASAP to unlock the powercast skill. 3 points every level, and no excuses! I put the other 3 each level into piety to increase spell points, but other problems can be addressed. Speed isn't a bad investment since it will allow you to cast before the monsters, which can be important.
Priest- Max piety ASAP, 3 points every level. The other 3 points are a little more tricky. Some people like their healer to go first to heal the damage the party picks up the previous round (3 points in speed). Others like their healer to be very slow so he goes last. I find that priests tend to have nothing to do (nobody needs healing and all the buff spells are already up) quite a bit in the middle game, so I grow them to be decent in ranged combat (Sense and Dex).
At character creation, I usually make sure everyone has 50+ speed because I favor fast parties, but with all humans that won't be a big deal for you. If you want more, ask away!
PS- this board has line-wrap, so you don't have to hit return at the end of each line you type. Just type away and let the board take care of the rest.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Mon Feb 03, 2003 2:41 pm |
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Archaven
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 30
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Thanks again dteowner. So in summary, Piety and Intelligence for Mages. Doess that mean Priest has no need of intelligence?. Also I would like to know if it's worth pumping points in the closed combat skill for the fighter? I read somewhere that the close combat skill is a total waste of skill points if i were to know the first place what is my permanent weapon of choice. I know in advance that I would always have my fighter to use the sword. Thus, I am not pumping any skill points at all onto the close combat for my fighter. However, I noticed that the close combat skill is the primary skill for the fighter and that the skill provides a 25% on top of other skills. So far I have been neglecting this skill till my sword skill reaches around 30. Is it worth doing so? Does maxing out the sword skill reveals another
sub skills like revealing power strike after you maxed out strength? Thanks
Ps. Thanks for informing me about the line wrap. Im hitting enter on everryline because I use to type my replies in the notepad. At the end, I cut and pasted to the text box provided.
Thanks anyway  |
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Mon Feb 03, 2003 3:51 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
A priest can be dumb as a box of rocks.
For a fighter, I put 3 points in sword, 3 points in close, and the balance between ranged and bow. I don't know that that plan is mathematically optimum, but it works for me. I've heard of people that don't put any points in close, too. As far as I know, nobody has ever completely reverse-engineered the formulas for combat (and Alex and Linda refused our requests), so your guess is as good as anyone else's as to how each skill affects your character. otter might be able to give you a better plan since he's played nothing but Wiz8 for about a year now, and Bilbo has won 2 or 3 times as well so he might have an opinion (I played about 8 months, with a couple weeks for MM9 and a brief start with Morrowind mixed in).
Maxxing abilities (STR, INT, WILL, DEX, etc) opens special skills. Maxxing skills (sword, close combat, wizardry) does not.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Mon Feb 03, 2003 5:26 pm |
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