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Rendelius
Critical Error
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 16
Location: Austria |
Well, yes. NWN is nothing I will buy when it comes out. I will listen to my mates here at RPGDot how they like it. Then I decide.
Should get a review copy of Arx Fatalis soon, btw - this is one I am REALLY interested in.
_________________
Rendelius
former Senior Editor RPGDot
now at http://www.theastronomers.com |
Tue Jun 18, 2002 6:48 pm |
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Danny
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Posts: 45
Location: Alblasserdam, The Netherlands |
quote:
Originally posted by Rendelius
Well, yes. NWN is nothing I will buy when it comes out. I will listen to my mates here at RPGDot how they like it. Then I decide.
Should get a review copy of Arx Fatalis soon, btw - this is one I am REALLY interested in.
Quite funny how different people have different tastes! NWN is a blind-buy for me, i waited a couple of years for this game, and i'm not all that impressed with Arx Fatalis after playing the demo for some time...
What feature from Arx is it you like most Rend? Personally i thougth the controls were a little bit strange (but that didn't bother me that much, gothic had strange controls too, and look how great that game was.) but my biggest complain had to be the atmosphere, it just didn't " pull " me into the world of Arx.
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Ankh-Morpork had dallied with many forms of government and had ended up with that form of democracy known as One Man, One Vote. The Patrician was the Man; he had the Vote. |
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 11:18 am |
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GhanBuriGhan
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 208
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Most previews on NWN seem very positive to me, but I notice that there really is hardly any info available on how well the multiplayer component is acutally working, how good it feels. Thats what I am really curious about. I was not a huge fan of the BG sereies (nice games, but not spellbinding to me) so I wouldnt get it just for the singleplayer.
No more good games? I actually think these days will be looked as a second "golden age" by bitter gamers a few years from now. Just look at the amount of games released or soon to be released: BG II, Gothic, Morrowind, IWDII, ARX, Divine Divinity, Gothic II, Dungeon siege... There is bound to be a big slump after this, as gamers turn to differnet types of games again after being oversaturated for so long. Personally I think some of these games rank very high on my all-time-favorites list, although I understand that some of you disagree. I think whats happeneing to some of us is simply oversaturation - after playing so many games, among them the few "works of genius" that computer games have ever seen, nothing seems so fresh anymore, every aspect has been doen better in another game, and the promise of technological advance seems hollow. Also we are getting older, and our tastes change - are you guys sure we would not think of some of our old classics as kiddie games, if they came out now? This strikes me when people say how dissapointed they are with the new Star Wars movies, how dumbed down they are. Too me they just have a bad script and bad acting, but the old ones dont seem in any way more mature to me, EXCEPT in my memory... because I first watched them when I was maybe 14... |
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 11:51 am |
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Danny
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Posts: 45
Location: Alblasserdam, The Netherlands |
quote:
Originally posted by GhanBuriGhan
Most previews on NWN seem very positive to me, but I notice that there really is hardly any info available on how well the multiplayer component is acutally working, how good it feels. Thats what I am really curious about. I was not a huge fan of the BG sereies (nice games, but not spellbinding to me) so I wouldnt get it just for the singleplayer.
No more good games? I actually think these days will be looked as a second "golden age" by bitter gamers a few years from now. Just look at the amount of games released or soon to be released: BG II, Gothic, Morrowind, IWDII, ARX, Divine Divinity, Gothic II, Dungeon siege... There is bound to be a big slump after this, as gamers turn to differnet types of games again after being oversaturated for so long. Personally I think some of these games rank very high on my all-time-favorites list, although I understand that some of you disagree. I think whats happeneing to some of us is simply oversaturation - after playing so many games, among them the few "works of genius" that computer games have ever seen, nothing seems so fresh anymore, every aspect has been doen better in another game, and the promise of technological advance seems hollow. Also we are getting older, and our tastes change - are you guys sure we would not think of some of our old classics as kiddie games, if they came out now? This strikes me when people say how dissapointed they are with the new Star Wars movies, how dumbed down they are. Too me they just have a bad script and bad acting, but the old ones dont seem in any way more mature to me, EXCEPT in my memory... because I first watched them when I was maybe 14...
You are right on all your points. When i was young i liked movies like Conan the Barbarian and The Beastmaster because i was fascinated by them, and they looked real and scary to me. When i watch those movies now i only notice arnold's goofy accent and the weak plot (still great atmosphere though). These day i also miss the time to play my games for hours and hours in a row. I realize i'm spoiled with classics like fallout and Planescape, but every major crpg i play nowadays does not live up to my personal hype. Alas, we grow older and every year our wishlist for rpg's grow bigger...we wan't a big world, detailed npc's with nice background story's, realistic npc behaviour, nice combat but not to much, nice dialog with different options depending on your stats/race/class, nice graphics, good enemy a.i., no fed ex quests, decent plot, etc.
But game-developers don't have all the time in the world, they are under pressure from the big companies, so they can't work for 5 years or longer on one title, unless it's already known that it will be a commercial succes (e.g. anything from Blizzard, John Carmeck, Westwood). They can't implement everything we want and i guess we'll have to live with that...
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Ankh-Morpork had dallied with many forms of government and had ended up with that form of democracy known as One Man, One Vote. The Patrician was the Man; he had the Vote. |
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 12:45 pm |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
NWN = BG2 + Dungeon siege/diablo2 mix.
-Graphics like Dungeon siege
- 1 character + a henchman like diablo 2
- Quests and AD&D rules like BG2 (The AD&D 3rd version is no bigger difference, still boring character development)
- Combat like BG2/Dungeon siege
- Multiplayer like Diablo2
It's feels like a mixed bag for me, they have taken some good issues from the other games, but certainly also som questionable issues IMHO.
But okay a great story, interesting NPC's, intelligent quests, and well-made dungeons can make a big difference by it self. |
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 1:48 pm |
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Guest
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I'm also hoping Fallout 3 can become a reality, RPG definitely needs a breath of new concept to steer itself away from another dark age coming ahead. Most of the recent titles failed to hold my attention, not because they aren't graphically pleasing, but its the gameplay and plot. I've purchased HOMM 4(HOMM 3 was better), Dungeon Siege(great for the first few days), Freedom Force(this I kept), Morrowind (complete hyped up), and each game I have played up 50% or more towards completion. Unfortunately none of these games hold my attention long enough, and I've sold most of them on EBay already. I've just purchased NWN but haven't open it yet, I'm awaiting for more comments from experienced players and I'll decide if I want to break the seal or return the game to the retail store. They certainly don't make RPG like they used, I grew up with games like Wasteland, Ultima series, and there are not many games in recent years that can offer the same feeling that those classics gave me. |
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:41 pm |
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Xanaki
Ghost of Asheron
Joined: 07 May 2002
Posts: 398
Location: Helsinki, Finland |
Heh Rendelius (refering to your original message). In another thread in another forum I spoke about this. This is why I don't mainly read the reviews, unless I really *KNOW* the person who is doing the review.
Have you tried NWN yet? The current spoiled generation who thinks that DIABLO is a RPG can really make our lives miserable. Sadly it is the fact that 99% of the players these days really think Diablo is a RPG. And most reviewers are even worse... IMHO.
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Senior Editor @ www.mmorpgdot.com |
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:49 pm |
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Rendelius
Critical Error
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 16
Location: Austria |
Xanaki, no I haven't played it yet.
For why I am looking forward to Arx Fatalis? Because I love dungeon crawls, and because this game seems to have a lot of interactivity with the game world. I just love the dark atmo of dungeons, really 
_________________
Rendelius
former Senior Editor RPGDot
now at http://www.theastronomers.com |
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:53 pm |
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Yog Sothoth
The All in One
Joined: 01 May 2002
Posts: 1086
Location: Between Space and Time |
quote:
Originally posted by Rendelius
Xanaki, no I haven't played it yet.
For why I am looking forward to Arx Fatalis? Because I love dungeon crawls, and because this game seems to have a lot of interactivity with the game world. I just love the dark atmo of dungeons, really
 Bravo!
Just tell me one thing, Rendelius...
Had you read my mind?  
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 11:34 pm |
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Frobozz
Guest
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Hi folks...Just thought I'd insert my 0x02 to this thread...
I just picked up NWN yesterday. For some reason, I was REALLY hyped about it, even though I have yet to finish a Bioware game (I've stopped playing all of them in frustration, with the exception of PST which wasn't Bioware). I guess I got caught up in the hype!!
Now, let me say I know people who love BG and BGII will love NWN. However, after an evening with NWN I found myself getting -angry- at the game, for the same reasons I got angry at BGII.
I honestly can't see what the hype about NWN is now. The 3D engine is nice BUT...in reality, it's just a 3D version of the Infinity engine! Everything else plays and feels EXACTLY like Baldur's Gate II (only now it's in quasi-3D). The world is STILL sterile and non-interactive. The thing about the Baldur's series I hated most was combat...the silly real-time on top of turn-based D&D rules engine was an endless source of frustration. I gave up on Sarevok in BG1 (all those damnable dopplegangers...after dieing and reloading about 1000x I decided "this ain't fun"), I gave up part way through BG2 (vampires...why oh why do they ALWAYS cast "haste" followed by about 100 level drains before you have a chance to even draw your sword? Again...this is NOT FUN.) And just like BG1 and BG2, being a magic user SUCKS BAD. It's a pain.
I just finished Gothic the other day...I'm still coming down off the high that game gave me. For a "sleeper" hit (pun intended), it really blew my socks off. Arcanum had me hooked as well (what do you know...combat wasn't a pain in the ass so I stuck with it). As you can see they both do things differently...Gothic is realtime, almost "arcade-ish", but it doesn't detract from the RPG-ness...Arcanum can be both, but I played it entirely turn-based. The Infinity engine's real-time engine just didn't do it for me. I'm sad so say that NWN does the exact same thing.
YMMV...if you enjoyed BGII I have no doubt you'll love NWN...for myself, I was expecting something DIFFERENT...I was hoping they'd change game play mechanics, but they did not...it plays exactly like Baldur's. Yech.
(And don't get me started on bugs...NWN randomly crashes when you save the game, destroying your save...didn't both BG1 and 2 have this EXACT SAME BUG?!?) |
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Thu Jun 20, 2002 2:02 pm |
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diablo
Guest
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heya everyone,
i just bought NWN today and had played it for several hours. i always enjoyed BioWare's games like BG1, BG2, planescape Torment, IWD1, IWD2 and have keep an eye on NWN since 1998. Graphically, it 3D engine looks dated but still almost everything rendered sharp & beautifully - at least almost as good as Dungeon Siege. Off course, it could not reach the realism level or lifelike world of Morrowind. The story and quest for single player in NWN are good and interesting (i won't spoiled it here) and most likely keep you going on your adventures. One valuable thing in NWN that i find satisfying is interesting characters/NPCs with they own personality and background. I mean not all NPCs, but many important NPCs such as henchmen that speak with certain accent, or a trainer that insist you should address him with certain title/designation. Even more during character creation proccess, you can assign your character with variety of voices set (as in Wizardry 8; also in other Bioware RPG series - but i think in NWN it's getting better). Each voices set depict different personality, such as violent figther, a brooding character, manic psychotic person, to an voice set of innocent girls (you could imaging the squeak & screams she produce when getting hit by warhammers!!). Then coupled with realistic character portrait, it could further conveying certain personalities that you want to play in the game. Overall, i think NWN is not a perfect game; but again, there are no such thing as perfect game. Morrowind is not perfect, so did Gothic (many complaining about control & etc). There's only few very good RPG games i ever played (on my personal taste): first Planescape Torment; others = Gothic, Morrowind, Fallout series, & BG series. Since i haven't finish NWN, i can't say much about it. But it really gave me a early positive impression. At least it's worth the money for RPG gamer. It haven't crash or having any problem on my pc. |
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Sat Jun 22, 2002 11:06 pm |
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mtkafka
Village Dweller
Joined: 15 Jul 2001
Posts: 24
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I like NWN so far, but still find it a letdown. Guessing I'm about at the end of chapter 2 and played a few hours online. So far the games success really depends on the multiplayer. The single player game, while not bad, is imo very generic. Theres some very cool moments like the end of chapter 1 and the middle to end parts of chapter 2, but the other parts of the game feel, just very generic, lacks the spark of the other Infinty/BG/PST/IWD games.
Playing without a party is a BIG difference. And ironically playing a few games online most people didn't want to roleplay, or just didn't know how... not that I'm an rp master, but I know the basics.... And this was on the roleplaying server list!~ But that should be solved over time if the fanbase sticks with it.
So far I find the editor very easy in its basics, but the details are not as 'easy' as they appear. Doing conversation trees and quests are as hard as doing them in the MW editor imo, which kind of turned me off. I was hoping to make semi complete 'generic' modules with quests without much in learning new scripts. But I guess its a given with games like these.
I think Bioware should have ditched the isometric perspective and went full first person/third person. Since its a crpg that doesnt let you control a party it should have been an option ... it would have added much more immersion to be able to see the game in first person, especially if you were a player being dm'd! The graphics are very good anyways. Best spell effects in any of the recent crpgs.
etc |
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Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:53 am |
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Gaijin
Head Merchant
Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 62
Location: Montreal |
This may put me in the category of 'Fan Boy' but here goes.
After playing many rpg's this year (and suddenly realizing I should give Gothic a try) I have to say putting in NWN felt like I was home. It was that comfortable feeling you get when you're playing something familiar. And while venturing out and away from the norm can be rewarding (Deus Ex was deadly) to downright painful (Pool Of Radiance anybody?)...I always love coming back to the one sure thing I know is going to be enjoyable.
Bioware does it for me. The games are solidly built and while I'm not as blown away as I once was (Planescape being the most satisfying experience I have ever had in the Windows era) I am still quite pleased with the end result. This game is fun....and so far that's just the SP. It's not going to be a monumental leap in the genre, but it doesn't have to be. It's like RPGing with your old friends...You know who's going to play the tank character, who has to play the female character and who is going to eventually end up getting you killed...Fun, what a RPG has always been for me....I equate this to my CRPG experiences with Bioware games.
Bleh, I rambled. I like the game. I moved right into the story and while it's still a little pedestrian it's a well put together piece of gaming *knock on wood*
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We need a new bard. All this one does is sing and drink. |
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Sun Jun 23, 2002 7:05 am |
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stealth
Protector of the Realm
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
Posts: 261
Location: Valhalla |
quote:
Originally posted by mtkafka
I think Bioware should have ditched the isometric perspective and went full first person/third person.etc
3. person (Gothic) perhaps but not 1. person. Isometric is perfect IMO. I still haven’t seen a RPG using FPV that I haven’t laughed at during combat. It just looks silly. It’s the reason why I can’t play Morrowind for more than a couple of hours. My stomach just can’t handle the pressure.
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Sun Jun 23, 2002 8:37 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I think you're wrong, Llama.
It's easy to be cynical and dismiss everything but I think most of the games you mentioned were excellent.
Morrowind has it's flaws but it has the courage to provide a huge, open world that I haven't seen for a long time. BG2 was excellent - I loved the strategic, party-based combat (even against all the mages).
I'm looking forward to IWD2 and the inclusion of some 3E changes. After Gothic, Morrowind and NWN I'm itching for some party-based Infinity action. It's a good move by BIS to use an engine they're experienced with for a sequel to a proven seller.
I'd love to see Fallout3 - but BIS are right to take their time. The core Fallout team has left, they would need to find an engine (probably 3D) and Fallout didn't sell THAT well.
And knock Lionheart when you've tried it. |
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Sun Jun 23, 2002 9:07 am |
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