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Raldor
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 27 Sep 2001
Posts: 107
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I only played for about 10 minutes, but I'm pretty much unimpressed so far. The character creation was good, and the graphics look fine to me, but I'm hating the combat. In an action combat game, I need to feel like I have good control over my character, not like he's sliding around all over the place. Is there a key to "lock onto" enemies? With such loose movement, the game could sure use one. |
Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:51 pm |
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vid
Guest
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i also finished the demo.
have you noticed that you can lure a monster (goblin) into a doorway, close the door and watch it die?
nice
sadly the fighting quickly gets repetitive and old... hopefully there will be much more story / puzzles to keep the game interesting. i fear there won´t. |
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Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:07 pm |
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roqua1
Guest
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you guys are a bunch of sissy girls. Oh no, it starts of hard...I like my rpgs super duper easy, whaaa. Learning curves is like so yesterday.
I can't think of one RT game where combat isn't repetitive. You sissy girls are the ones that love RT twitch combat, which always sucks and is repetitive, and now you whine and nit pick? What is RT 1st person rpg done right? The unplayable Gothic which requires you to be a timing master to do anything? Or maybe Kotor, which is so damn rediculously easy that Terri Schaivo could beat any battle, feeding tube or no. Or maybe Morrowind, that combat didn't suck at all.
And as for controls, my God, how can so many Gothic lovers ever complain about poor control schemes?
Graphics...they are great, if you really think Kotor 2's is better you are the one that is insane. And since when has eye candy been the number 1 feature of an rpg? If graphics is the cake for you you are a fan of the wrong genre. And when an rpg has mind boggling graphics like Bloodliens everyone finds something else to cry about, besides the bread and butter of every rpg of course, which is the combat system, everyone cries when it is done right, like in ToEE.
So basically, if combat doesn't start off easy and stay easy, a la Diablo, Morrowind, and kotor, the game sucks. Unless its Gothic.
This game obviously needs polish, no doubt, but not giving it the time of day for stupid sissy girl reasons like resolution and being attacked by bats and rats early on is dumb. Man-up ladies, or go play Doom and Halo with your sisters. |
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Sat Mar 26, 2005 11:46 pm |
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Roguecop
Guest
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I think their may be some 'shills' onboard. Really sketchy. Putting lipstick on this pig won't cut it. This game lacks any redeeming value in its current form and requires major retooling to even make it worthy of the bargain bin. Another year and several million dollars, conservative. Even then the over riding question would be 'why'?
'Better than KoTOR'...sheesh...
Anybody who believes this, please go pay $49.95 for an unpolished turd. Hope it works out of you.
There is no over riding quality control in computer games. I'm tired of these companies dumping their unfinished, mismanaged garbage onto shelves. Have some pride in your reputation. Spend the money, take the time, and quit wasting both of ours. |
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Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:01 am |
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Guest
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Kotor 2 can do 1600X1200 rez with 8xAA and 16xAF. Try it at those settings and tell me if Dungeon Lords looks better. |
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Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:05 am |
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Roguecop
Guest
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Well when a game starts at night(a bad sign in any game), when clip planing only goes, relatively speaking, about 100 feet. When the modelling and art design of NWN, a game released in 2002 blows this game out of the water. When the graphics team have not bothered to animate the turn steps of the main character, among other missing animations and not bothered w/ NPC animation at all. And so forth It doesn't matter what resolution the game is played at. To say nothing of buggy AI and poor game dynamics. Both the 3D and sound/music engine are quite substandard and border line broken.
BTW you can force AA and AF with both Nvidia and ATI cards. I've played this only at 8X AA and 16X AF. Even at 800X600 these options do a bang up job of smoothing jaggies.
It's a shame, got to wonder if DW Bradley has a really decent scenario burried under this mess... |
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Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:51 am |
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Guest
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Yeah, I've never played a DWB game I didn't like, even though I can't stand hack n' slash usually. I still play wiz 7. I beat wiz 6 just to import a party to wiz 7. I love that game. I got wiz and warriors not too long ago and liked that better than most of the junk coming out today.
I just thank god I'm not a graphics whore and what people tell me are not good graphics really impress me. I usually turn the graphics down to minimum just so it runs smoother anyway.
But, I still make boot disks to make my favorites play. I love games that still run without needing dosbox like Buck Rogers or Realms of Arcania 3.
But even when they came out, back in the day, getting a game to work took almost as long as beating it. Like Ultima 7, what a pain in the ass that was, or the ultimaq underworlds.
I just can't stand the turn the rpg community has taken, like at codex there are excited posts for a stupid gay future diablo by flagship, but when one of the classic designers that made one of the greatest rpgs ever comes out with a stupid RT, non-party action rpg no one cares. When if it wasn't for the graphics, RT action whores he would of made a real party TB rpg. Good game designer's like DW, Troika and Sirtek can't win for loosing. And rpg fans get all wet for fake diablo rpgs. I'll take a bug ridden ToEE over a polished, shinny piece of diablo, Fable, etc crap anyday.
Better graphics cost more money, bet voiceover costs more money, better ai scripts cost more money, do you guys really think anyone threw tons of cash at Hueristic when their last game sold like crap? You can save your cash for the next fancy polished piece of crap, or support the real rpgs developers who might actually one day make a real rpg. Because this nonsense coming out now a days ain't real rpgs, its a semi-interactive story with shiny enough graphics to divert your attention from the fact that the game is crap. Rate the combat in kotor and nwn, rate the combat in diablo and its clones, compare that to Realms of Arcania and Buck Rogers and Darksun or even Quest for Glory and EotB 2.
Whats the last game you played that you had to reload 500 times to try different strategies to get through an area or beat a boss? Try asking yourself if the level you just completed was fun, engaging, and well designed instead of if the noises were good and if the water looked good. And above all was it challenging (mentally, not reflexivly, rpgs are about thinking, not reflexes). Obviosly no RT junk will ever be anything but mostly reflexivly challenging, with some gay puzzles, so your choice is support the big crap guys, or the little guys trying their hardest with what they have to make the best game they can. |
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Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:34 am |
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roqua1
Guest
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that was me, sorry |
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Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:35 am |
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the mighty stamar
High Emperor
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 602
Location: arcata ca, humboldt county |
having now completed the demo Id like to upgrade my impression from fun to outstanding.
It does have a lot of leftovers from wizards and warriors.
Give it time until you reach the dungeons its really cool.
Ok heres a quick point. at lvl one you cant beat anything with a sword. The fact that you seem to be hitting but still miss is your skill level.
Figure out spells first. Even at hard the spells will destroy all the monsters in the game about 3 times over. when your character levels up some in melee and weapons then try out the combat. Seems sort of confusing way to do it in the demo but thats what i recomend.
when you do get the combat, always fight backing up. the other moves are sort of poorly made because they combo move with fight so after your attack, you move.
so you right attack, then afterwards you move right and your not even pointed at the monster again. this takes a lot of practice its pretty difficult coordination. You need to hit S then left click.
Overall the game is a lot like gothic. I really like the truly 3 feeling, swimming up and down climbing.
I believe at 800 x 600 the graphic detail is better than gothic. What well need to see is what it looks like at 1024 x 768. Thats not saying a whole hell of a lot i believe gothic is 4 years old.
MUCH better detail than nwn or kotor2 I dont even know what youre talking about look at the character enviornment everything the monsters. I just finished kotor2 and that game is whats from 5 y ears ago not this one this one seems much more modern.
ambient sounds are outstanding. As far as voice acting I only found 2 npcs, 2 voices. both were great, english voice actors. a total of about 8 sentences in the whole demo Im not sure how much is going to be in the final game. |
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Sun Mar 27, 2005 6:51 am |
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abbaon
Guest
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Another stinker from DWB. Not difficult - take a rank in ninjitsu and you can tear through enemies like they're not there - just not fun, and a complete waste of time. |
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Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:01 am |
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Sem
Solid as a Rock
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 3386
Location: at the Dot |
quote:
Originally posted by the mighty stamar
Give it time until you reach the dungeons its really cool.
Indeed, but the way to it seems too hard. It's even harder than Gothic in the beginning. I got killed before I could figure out the controls. Even with less random encounters it can be really hard in the beginning. Especially because they even attack you when you're talking to Simon.
quote:
Originally posted by the mighty stamar
Ok heres a quick point. at lvl one you cant beat anything with a sword. The fact that you seem to be hitting but still miss is your skill level.
Indeed, with a higher skill level (say level 3) it gets much better.
quote:
Originally posted by the mighty stamar
Figure out spells first. Even at hard the spells will destroy all the monsters in the game about 3 times over. when your character levels up some in melee and weapons then try out the combat. Seems sort of confusing way to do it in the demo but thats what i recomend.
That's probably just a demo thing, I can't imagine that you will have so many and so powerful spells in the beginning of the game.
quote:
Originally posted by the mighty stamar
when you do get the combat, always fight backing up. the other moves are sort of poorly made because they combo move with fight so after your attack, you move.
so you right attack, then afterwards you move right and your not even pointed at the monster again. this takes a lot of practice its pretty difficult coordination. You need to hit S then left click.
You should dodge a lot with double tab right, left and with the backflip to make room for yourself. And yes you need to practise, but what is the use if you would play this game for 2 minutes and already could kill anything, because of your own playing skill.
quote:
Originally posted by the mighty stamar
Overall the game is a lot like gothic. I really like the truly 3 feeling, swimming up and down climbing.
Although the character has a serious issue with climbing ut of the water. It takes a lot of effort to get him on dry gound again. A thing that was better in Severance and that game is already 6-8 years old.  And the enemy AI needs a lot of improvements. Enemies can't even climb stairs and get stuck way too much. Enemies ignore npc's and npc's won't even engage in combat when somebody attacks you while you're standing next to the npc.
quote:
Originally posted by the mighty stamar
ambient sounds are outstanding. As far as voice acting I only found 2 npcs, 2 voices. both were great, english voice actors. a total of about 8 sentences in the whole demo Im not sure how much is going to be in the final game.
The German version will have complete voice-acting while in the English version only the most important npc's have voice-acting. Pretty lame that the English version doesn't get complete voice-acting too.
_________________
"Who are we to call this planet Earth, when it's clearly Ocean."
-- News Editor of GothicDot --
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Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:40 am |
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Acleacius
King of the Realms
Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Posts: 453
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Anyone else notice how ridiculous it is to have Runes with limited number of spells, ie Fireball and then design the demo with unstoppable unlimited spawns?
Lets hope there has been some mix up,
I know I do I was going to buy this game just for the Coop not to mention the possiblity of having a new Medievl game to play  |
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Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:27 pm |
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Lucky Day
Guest
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OK, I know other people have tried to uninstall. I don't want to just delete the folder and leave the windows registering wondering the heck all those files went.
anyone else having install problems? |
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Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:54 pm |
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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Lucky Day
OK, I know other people have tried to uninstall. I don't want to just delete the folder and leave the windows registering wondering the heck all those files went.
anyone else having install problems?
man. installation was (if you like me downloaded the exe file..?) a simple rar file which unpacked some files into a "dlords" directory.
there is NOTHING to uninstall. just DELETE the damn directory!
there also is NO registry entry for dungeonlords.
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Sun Mar 27, 2005 8:57 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
Rant follows... 
After some persistence I finally started to enjoy it...but I have a cartload of reservations. The character development is fun, I like the different spell systems (a bit dubious about limited spellbooks and so on with the constant spawns and amount of combat), melee gets much better with a couple of levels and a grip on how it works, plus the indoor sewer areas help restrict the camera.
Hopefully, the controls can be tightened, the outrageously bad camera that floats everywhere outdoors and gets blocked by trees and objects, will be improved, the audio quality increased (perhaps compressed for the demo?) and simple animation problems fixed up, like the extra steps when you stop moving.
What is really disappointing, however, is the bad design choices and what appears to be Bradley's inability to move the genre forward.
Roqua said "your choice is support the big crap guys, or the little guys trying their hardest with what they have to make the best game they can".
Many of the design choices aren't limited by budget - they're just bad design choices and Bradley should do better. Dumping players near a spawn point so they get overwhelmed before they can even look at the interface is plain stupid. Having AI that can't get around the hit-box of an NPC shouldn't be acceptable (position yourself behind Simon in line with the spawn point and all the mobs will all get stuck behind Simon).
Good interfaces can be expensive to develop and test but it doesn't take a genius to avoid some of the simple mistakes in Dungeon Lords. 'F' brings up the fast magic panel...but it doesn't toggle it off - 'Q' closes it. But 'Q' is switch weapons, otherwise. There's no visual feedback if you forget to switch back to weapons and the selected spell has run out. I have to open the Equipment panel to do simple things. The pathetic damage indicator down the bottom is ridiculous - players want feedback. Remember the outcry when Morrowind didn't have monster health indicators? A lesson (that should have been obvious anyway) not learned.
No way to select mobs with ranged weapons or magic (that I can figure out anyway)? Any casual player knows you want the control to take out key mobs (magic casters or finish off weakened mobs, for example).
But what about high level design goals? I would posit that one of the reasons BioWare is so successful is interesting characters and dialogue. Spiderweb can deliver some real roleplaying on a shoestring budget. I know many of the good 'ol RPGs used key-word dialogue systems but it doesn't cut it for me anymore. I know it's only a demo but there's not a single sign of good dialogue or interesting characters -- and time will tell but the fairy-tale "rescue the Princess" scenario couldn't be more trite.
I'm not satisfied with NPCs that stand there, ignored by the dozen spawned mobs. To be honest, I'm not satisfied with random spawns; it detracts from the integrity of the world to have bats to bandits pop out of thin air. NWN was criticised for barrels and chests outside all those houses -- does dozens of treasure chests full of spellbooks make any more sense? Why would Lord Davenmoor (sp?) close off the city anyway? You know he's going to want "heroes" to go looking for his daughter...where were they supposed to come from with the city closed?
These are things Gothic got right - the integrity of the world design made sense, by and large.
This is why I understand when people choose Blizzard or Flagship Studios over the little guy. The little guy is delivering an "RPG" that is really a fantasy action game - a dodgy 3D action makeover to the same design concepts that only sort-of worked the last time with a truckload of problems and a lack of understanding on some simple gameplay issues. Blizzard or Flagship will deliver what they promise: a highly polished action game.
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Editor @ RPGDot |
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Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:44 am |
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