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Sem
Solid as a Rock
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 3386
Location: at the Dot |
I'm not worrying... 
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"Who are we to call this planet Earth, when it's clearly Ocean."
-- News Editor of GothicDot --
-- Moderator of the RPGDot Shadows --
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Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:46 pm |
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tolgerias
High Emperor
Joined: 15 Jul 2004
Posts: 770
Location: The Netherlands |
Neither do I, PB can pull this off in a way we can't even imagine 
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If you can't debate without namecalling then don't bother visiting us. -Myrthos |
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Fri Sep 02, 2005 4:15 pm |
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LordHagen
Village Dweller
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Posts: 21
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We are at the begining of september, saying G3 will be released in 6 months in germany means It'll hit stores something like the 1rst march, so if PB doesn't think they'll finish it in 6 months, maybe 8 or 9, it means UK and USA (if it get released 1 month after german game in UK AND USA) will get the game by june-july! Well, at least It'll be the holidays, and by then the cheapest geforce 7800GT 256 mb will surely cost less than 200 euros  (I think...) |
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Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:00 pm |
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nasos_333
Head Merchant
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 53
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quote:
Originally posted by jonik77L
quote:
Originally posted by Gorath
Itīs more likely the Gamestar knows exactly what itīs talking about, because they didnīt see the actual game during their visit to PB. They only saw editors and spent hours talking to the team.
It seems PB chose to make the cities smaller to make the game faster. A reason could also be resources.
Major dissapointment... Khorinis was already unrealistically small. They
are going to make the capital of a whole continent smaller than something
that already looked like half of a backward village !!!! And 10 Npcs per Location
?!! Something less than a half way prosperous farmsteed... How do they think
they are going to pull this off and retain any sense of realism is beyond me...
quote:
Originally posted by Gorath
The Gamestar also mentiones that most of the screenshots are constructed with 3D objects instead of having been made as a real screeshot. Those pics are marked in the mag. So you should assume that all the spectacular shots are only design studies. 
?! What ?! What kind of a way is that to present a game ?! "screenshots" that
arent screenshots ?! So instead of concept sketches they gave us "concept 3D
renders" ? please tell me that I understood wrong. I mean their renderer CAN
provide that quality right ? Its not something that an artist made in 3Ds Max
or something... The more I hear about this game the less I feel that we
should take PB at face value at least untill we see something more concrete...
that being this far only the rather dissapointing GC presentation combined with the above info...
6 months ?! more likely a year...
I can't understand the statement that screenshots are made of 3D objects. What would they be made of ?????
What they mean would be that those pics are pre-rendered and not real time ones in their real time renderer. I suppose posting those pics mean that SOMETIME in the future, their renderer will be able to handle those graphics as we see them in real time, even if you have to get a R580 to get 30fps max. If not, the game anticipation level goes down, after oblivion and witcher, which both look stunning and seems that pics from those are as real as they get
Until some real in-game videos are released then ... |
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Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:02 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
The Gamestar preview can be found on Gothic Vision.
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Webmaster GothicDot |
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Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:01 pm |
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jonik77L
Village Dweller
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Greece |
quote:
Originally posted by nasos_333
I can't understand the statement that screenshots are made of 3D objects. What would they be made of ?????
What they mean would be that those pics are pre-rendered and not real time ones in their real time renderer. I suppose posting those pics mean that SOMETIME in the future, their renderer will be able to handle those graphics as we see them in real time, even if you have to get a R580 to get 30fps max. If not, the game anticipation level goes down, after oblivion and witcher, which both look stunning and seems that pics from those are as real as they get
Until some real in-game videos are released then ...
You know the funny thing is that you are giving me my own answer to the kind
of sceptisism that you had expressed in a previous thread 
...
I just am not so sure any more  screenshots CAN be "synthesised" partly
using the renderer partly "adding" to it though it would take so much effort
from an artist that should be working on the project itself that it seems really
improbable...
And you seem to disregard that my main concern is the reduced towns and
Npcs per location that will imo reduce the complexity and believability of the
game world... Which to me is far more important than graphics... Also from
what I have already saw of the graphics even the High Q are not that earth
shattering and If they make the engine scallable enough (which they intend to
since they claimed that a gf4 ti would be enough) gfx will not be the bottleneck... Memory mgmt and overall engine performance will... Hence the
plans to cut down on Npcs per Location... They said that they will do this, we
might concider it a fact... as opposed to specullating about gfx Q and
performance... Add to that another known method of improving performance
that has to do with reducing visibility (overall performance boost)...
To give you an idea of what I am afraid of: Let me just say that I have an
AMD FX55 2G of Ram 2X 76,4 WD Raptors (10k rpm,8mb) in Raid 0 and
Gothic 2 Drops to as much as 23 fps in some parts of Khorinis !!! Imagine
what would happen if they retained the main architectural concept of the
Engine as Ram and NPC Management from G2 (or indeed the engine itself
and they just done optimisations and rewrote the renderer)... That would
explain a lot about the 10 npcs per location... Its called code reuse... its cheap
and easy...
P.S
R580 ?! come on the 7800GTX is said to be enough to run UnrealEngine3 in
1280x960... It will hardly come to that I believe graphically a 6800GT
will be enough for full Q... But that is ofcourse unbased (and pointless)
speculation...
for nasos_333 :
Ahem, ti tha ginei me ton proypologismo re ? |
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Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:37 am |
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nasos_333
Head Merchant
Joined: 13 Sep 2002
Posts: 53
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quote:
Originally posted by jonik77L
quote:
Originally posted by nasos_333
I can't understand the statement that screenshots are made of 3D objects. What would they be made of ?????
What they mean would be that those pics are pre-rendered and not real time ones in their real time renderer. I suppose posting those pics mean that SOMETIME in the future, their renderer will be able to handle those graphics as we see them in real time, even if you have to get a R580 to get 30fps max. If not, the game anticipation level goes down, after oblivion and witcher, which both look stunning and seems that pics from those are as real as they get
Until some real in-game videos are released then ...
You know the funny thing is that you are giving me my own answer to the kind
of sceptisism that you had expressed in a previous thread
...
I just am not so sure any more screenshots CAN be "synthesised" partly
using the renderer partly "adding" to it though it would take so much effort
from an artist that should be working on the project itself that it seems really
improbable...
And you seem to disregard that my main concern is the reduced towns and
Npcs per location that will imo reduce the complexity and believability of the
game world... Which to me is far more important than graphics... Also from
what I have already saw of the graphics even the High Q are not that earth
shattering and If they make the engine scallable enough (which they intend to
since they claimed that a gf4 ti would be enough) gfx will not be the bottleneck... Memory mgmt and overall engine performance will... Hence the
plans to cut down on Npcs per Location... They said that they will do this, we
might concider it a fact... as opposed to specullating about gfx Q and
performance... Add to that another known method of improving performance
that has to do with reducing visibility (overall performance boost)...
To give you an idea of what I am afraid of: Let me just say that I have an
AMD FX55 2G of Ram 2X 76,4 WD Raptors (10k rpm,8mb) in Raid 0 and
Gothic 2 Drops to as much as 23 fps in some parts of Khorinis !!! Imagine
what would happen if they retained the main architectural concept of the
Engine as Ram and NPC Management from G2 (or indeed the engine itself
and they just done optimisations and rewrote the renderer)... That would
explain a lot about the 10 npcs per location... Its called code reuse... its cheap
and easy...
P.S
R580 ?! come on the 7800GTX is said to be enough to run UnrealEngine3 in
1280x960... It will hardly come to that I believe graphically a 6800GT
will be enough for full Q... But that is ofcourse unbased (and pointless)
speculation...
for nasos_333 :
Ahem, ti tha ginei me ton proypologismo re ?
My friend jonik77L in the distant land of Greece , it is true your arguments were very true, and even though my scepticism for some things (like the release date in 2007 , or the ability to make it run in less than an ati 580) remains, hope is the last thing to die as always.
As for the reduced NPC's and towns, yes i agree that would be really dissapointing to have only villages, instead of some huge towns. If it has monsters enough, and interesting mysterious and intriguing places, maybe the lack of many NPC's in town will not be as noticable. |
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Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:19 am |
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jonik77L
Village Dweller
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Greece |
Hmm, just read over at WorldofGothic that Kairo said that what we will see
from Vangard is the Last defended "core" of the city (or so the guys there say)
The "Acropolis" (or the keep if you prefer) will be what is left after months
of Orcish Siege and the actual city will be in ruins surrounding this last line of
defence...
Well Ok, that makes story sense (noone said that PB arent clever kids )
But it still is hard to stomach that you will have 10 npcs settlements... it simply is unrealistic...
Maybe if the Keep was the size of khorinis... and there was another settlement
as big say in Nordmarr or the Desert lands (i.e a trade town something like
khorinis)...
P.S But to avoid sounding completely negative (taking a little break from the
whining ) I'll have to say this about the graphics: I dont know how good
gfx will end up, but the G1 feeling that I missed so much seems to be already
there from what I could see in the GC vid... I think a previous poster also
mentioned that... |
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Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:49 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
Donīt forget that PB only have limited resources. Time and money are constant, only what they do with it can be changed.
Bigger cities, more NPCs and all the AI in the background cause exponentially more effort. Do you think itīs worth it to cut 50 other things out just to have bigger cities full of rather useless NPCs? It seems G3 takes a decentralized approach. Instead of going back to "the city" every time you travel through the land from village to village.
AFAIR KaiRo only said the capital is surrounded by ruins. If you include the ruins itīs slightly bigger than Khorinis.
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Webmaster GothicDot |
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Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:45 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
I was hoping for G1 type of settlements. The New Camp, Old Camp and Swamp Camp all feel great and have interesting NPCs. A lot of that interaction and how they live is very interesting to me, and I love that about G1.
Besides, let's face it, 10 guys would not be able to hold off the orcs. You can't defend a city with 10 fighters. It must be more. I mean, the King and 9 guards defending the last bastion of men? Hardly. That's like Gandalf and the Brotherhood of the Ring holding off the orcs on their own.
I'm guessing we'll see a lot of smaller settlements with only a few people, but the main city will still have to have a few different shopkeepers, some interesting people to talk to, and quite a few defenders. Nothing else makes sense - otherwise the orcs would win easily.
At least that's what I think. |
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Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:09 am |
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lilithn
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 28
Location: Budapest, Hungary |
The hell. Doesn't this orc look like fing Shrek??? 
http://www.cx-digital.com/gothic-vision/images/artikel_gamestar/gs_head01.jpg
I'm not happy at all. I've seen some renders of the orcs and I do not like them a tiny bit. Only the body looks good somewhat. I want my G2 orcs back! |
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Tue Sep 06, 2005 7:43 am |
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titus
Survivor of Hell
Joined: 03 Aug 2003
Posts: 778
Location: Standing at the Hell mouth |
hadn't seen that one yet lilithn. you are right with that one, he looks to comical, but from what I have seen in the video I quit like the new kind of Orcs
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Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:28 am |
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Sem
Solid as a Rock
Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 3386
Location: at the Dot |
quote:
Originally posted by lilithn
The hell. Doesn't this orc look like fing Shrek???
http://www.cx-digital.com/gothic-vision/images/artikel_gamestar/gs_head01.jpg
I'm not happy at all. I've seen some renders of the orcs and I do not like them a tiny bit. Only the body looks good somewhat. I want my G2 orcs back!
And who says that it isn't just some nice artwork to put on the first page of the preview. All the other orcs were brown, so I doubt they they will have some green ones running around there too.
quote:
Originally posted by Maylander
A lot of that interaction and how they live is very interesting to me, and I love that about G1.
Nobody says that this will not be the case in G3. It's just that it will now be between different cities instread of in one big city.
I didn't like to go back to Khorinis over and over again.
_________________
"Who are we to call this planet Earth, when it's clearly Ocean."
-- News Editor of GothicDot --
-- Moderator of the RPGDot Shadows --
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Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:13 am |
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jonik77L
Village Dweller
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Greece |
quote:
Originally posted by Gorath
Bigger cities, more NPCs and all the AI in the background cause exponentially more effort. Do you think itīs worth it to cut 50 other things out just to have bigger cities full of rather useless NPCs? It seems G3 takes a decentralized approach. Instead of going back to "the city" every time you travel through the land from village to village.
I'm just afraid that it will hurt immersion, always the main selling point for me
in the Gothics... Also I COULD do without shields and dual wielding and more
spells, but I realize that in this I speak strictly for myself since most wish lists
around this forum seem to ask for more "gameplay" features that PB could
hope to implement in a decade...
Also I believe that cities, apart from the usual rpg role of main hub-Quest
dispensers, cover the important task of fleshing out the world (giving a sence
of history... not to mention geography...). They better be ready for a lot of
ruins if they want to sustain the illusion that there ever was a kingdom
there (and I dont mean just in the capital)...
Well its probable this spattering of small isolated settlements in woods and
wastelands surrounded by dangerous creatures and contested war zones will
help catch that necessary "gothic" feeling... It is certainly going to be
interesting finding-moving from one to another at the early stages of the
game... |
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Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:01 am |
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lilithn
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 28
Location: Budapest, Hungary |
quote:
Originally posted by Sem
And who says that it isn't just some nice artwork to put on the first page of the preview. All the other orcs were brown, so I doubt they they will have some green ones running around there too.
I have no problem with the green. I have problem with the head. And yeah, I saw the brown renders, but check the macking-of section, for example this head:
http://www.gothic3.com/_images/makingof/characterdesign/orcfull.jpg
He looks like "grandpa" also he looks very similar to the green one. Or probably I'm stupid.
Also check this render:
http://www.gothic3.com/_images/makingof/characterdesign/3d02.jpg |
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Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:54 pm |
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