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Mattias Kreku
Magister of the Light
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 387
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You really should try Gothic. A lot of the features mentioned in the posting before this one are possible in that game. I loved how I was able to climb on anything! Morrowind unfortunately doesn't even come close in this aspect. All you can do is do a stiff jump that usually doesn't even get you on top of a table. And when I finally get on top of something my character most often starts to "vibrate".. Like when he is standing on the edge of a chair or something and can't decide if he should fall down or stand still. Bad coding. |
Tue Jun 18, 2002 10:03 am |
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GhanBuriGhan
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 208
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These comparisons or wishlists are interesting, but not entirely fair. Its the same thing with the people that compare the combat with fighting games and claim that Morrowind should be able to do the same. Ever wondered why Tomb raider (and Gothic) give you only one character that you can play? Why so many characters in Gothic look so similar? Because that level of character movement takes a lot of development time, and the world has to be designed in a way so that it actually works. And please note that both of these are third person games, while MW is (despite the 3rd person view option) at heart a first person game (which is an important feature for me, BTW). Mantling might not look so great in first person mode, and would be hard to control.
And then its not only technology thats limiting to what games can do these days (that could probably be solved) its also economic considerations. We will see improvement as more and more features are allready implemented in engines that can be licensed by developers, but my guess is its gonna take a while. If I remember correctly Gothic II will still only offer one main character.
More realistic would be to compare it with the original system shock game - there we had movements like crouching, leaning around corners, going prone, jumping etc. That is something I would like to see in more first person games, but even shooters mostly dont do this. Why? Because they are mostly multiplayer, so its not enough to have this work in first person, it must also show and look good from a third person view, which makes things much more complicated. Morrowind has the same problem since they incuded the third person view. |
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 11:24 am |
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Mattias Kreku
Magister of the Light
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 387
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I really don't think adding a climb skill would have taken Bethesda to economic ruin  Remember the climb skill in Daggerfall? Whenever the city gates were closed for the night and you wanted to get in, you just scaled a wall! It was awesome. Especially in the capital city of one of the lands in the southern parts (forgot its name) where they had the game's largest building. A dome shaped castle.. When you climbed that you really were on top of the world. I loved that feeling of freedom. I got that same feeling in Gothic and I was sooo hoping for it in Morrowind too. But..
(Did anyone manage to get the climb skill up to 100% in Daggerfall? It was ridiculous! Your character grabbed anything and everything all the time! If you even looked at a wall you found yourself 0.2 seconds later on a roof.) |
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 11:41 am |
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GhanBuriGhan
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 208
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Oh yeah, i liked it too in Daggerfall, although the implementation wasn't really great (having to line up, and no way to climb down). But Daggerfall was 1st person only and had mostly only right angles, so the implementation for Morrowind would have been much more time consuming. Dont be too sure it would not have meant economic ruin. If you look at what happened to successfull and critically acclaimed developers like Looking Glass or GoDGames, it seems that they all operate very close to the limit. |
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 12:45 pm |
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Hawthorne
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 25 Apr 2002
Posts: 124
Location: Michigan, USA |
You only get to play one character in Morrowind at a time too.
As far as being able to select a variety of characters at the start, I think that when the animation is done applying it to characters with different textures and bump maps isn't that tough since all the characters would perform the same.
Still I'm only saying that for me, having a character that was more realistic would ad a lot to the game. I know that other people have other preferences. I have posted on many forums on the subject of character animation because it is a special interest of mine.
I tried the Alice demo and liked the general game but the character control kind of turned me off and I never bought the game.
I have never played Gothic but I will look into it!
Mike |
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 4:53 am |
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GhanBuriGhan
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 208
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Its not just textures. While the animations are probably shared for all characters, you still have to test and make sure that everything fits (no clipping ocurs), since the armor etc. can take up different amounts of space (are different models). Robes probably take a complete extra set. Then, since surfaces are not only vertical, you have to adjust the animation to fit the form of the climbed terrain. In tomb raider they don't have to do this, as the world is basically built of (nicely diquised) blocks. I actually have to look back how it was done in Gothic, I didnt really pay attentionto the details.
Again, I am not saying that it would have been too dificult to do, just that it would have taken time, time the company maybe couldnt afford to spend on something they did not think was absolutely vital. |
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:17 am |
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Mattias Kreku
Magister of the Light
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 387
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To get back to the original subject of the topic:
After giving the game more time I've noticed that it is, indeed, growing on me. I always play a fighter, cause I don't like magic that much except for healing and levitating. As a fighter this game is WAY too easy. That's still the case even though the new patch gives it a bit more possibilities for us challenge maniacs. But after reading through some of the threads in this forum I have discovered that ENCHANT and ALCHEMY actually are very neat and fun features in the game (Thanks, guys).
The world still seems static, colourless and repetitive. BUT.. I've been able to find a few pearls among the swines (hrmm). I found my first waterfall just a few days ago, for example. That really gave me a feeling of immersion. Don't ask me why! Other things I've found have helped me feel that this world is indeed huge and empty but it has its strong points. Maybe I expected too much (after playing Gothic that's not strange) but I have learnt to appreciate the little things.. Dreugh Warlords.. Drowned fishermen.. Hidden chests (with really useless items in it).. Not much, but I am starting to like it.
The quests.. Actually just skip the quests. They're mostly just dull and boring and doesn't give you anything worthwhile. And they clutter up your journal. BUT.. If you just run around in the wilderness and explore you will (finally) find some interesting ones. Especially the ones that are hiding deep inside dungeons, daedra shrines and mines. They are often very hard to find and there are not many of them but at least they can give you a challenge. Some small quests found randomly around the game can also give you a good laugh.. Just don't see it as work (for a house, clan, guild) and you'll be fine.
The npc's.. still the game's biggest flaw. But if you ignore 99% of the npc's you'll be able to find a few funny ones. Brothers fistfighting, exotic dancers that flirt with you, guys without pants (don't ask), irritated sorcerers and so on. The problem is that they're all hiding amongst thousands of generic npc's. I've been giving the game a chance for several weeks now and finally I'm able to appreciate the few interesting npc's. Many games have been better at this though, so beware!
All in all, this game is definitely not a classic game in my collection but it's quite a playable little semi-rpg all by itself. I still say Daggerfall is better though! |
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Fri Jun 21, 2002 2:49 pm |
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GhanBuriGhan
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 208
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Well, let me just say I am glad you are getting some fun for your money, after all. Dont forget the mods out there, there are a few gems among them. I really love the packguar mod, It takes away that feeling of loneliness very effectively. Its a little buggy, but great nonetheless, AND useful. I also hope we get more of the Less Generic NPC type mods, too. And soon I will be making some quests of my own, I hope... |
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Fri Jun 21, 2002 4:02 pm |
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