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iloveplywood
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 27
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Bump.
Just because I finally think we're getting close to a resolution here.
(it was already at the top when I posted so I'm not really to blame for it being here again)
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I'm never right, so if you disagree with me you're probably on the right track. |
Tue Jun 18, 2002 6:17 pm |
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Llama
High Emperor
Joined: 11 Oct 2001
Posts: 509
Location: Earth |
quote:
Actually Morrowind was one of the reasons I upgraded my system to a brand new shining Athlon XP 2000+, just to make sure I would be able to run it without problems. (I am also a computer science student so that might have had something to do with it too..)
Then I followed the development of Morrowind closely for the next 5-6 years (not sure if it's been that long, but I think so) eagerly awaiting its release.
So you're saying you bought a XP 2000+, then then started following the developement of Morrowind for the next 5-6 years? Incredible |
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 9:37 pm |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
quote:
Originally posted by Llama
quote:
Actually Morrowind was one of the reasons I upgraded my system to a brand new shining Athlon XP 2000+, just to make sure I would be able to run it without problems. (I am also a computer science student so that might have had something to do with it too..)
Then I followed the development of Morrowind closely for the next 5-6 years (not sure if it's been that long, but I think so) eagerly awaiting its release.
So you're saying you bought a XP 2000+, then then started following the developement of Morrowind for the next 5-6 years? Incredible
Llama, he said he was a computer science student, NOT an English grammar student  .
_________________
When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 9:41 pm |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
I keep seeing people say that you can't have a big car and a fast car because the two are physically impossible together. That you can't have fast car and an economy car at the same time, because it's technically impossible. Yet the same people demand that the lying marketers get off their butts and make a game that is huge, has awsome AI, is graphically perfect, has depth of play, is realistic simulation and can run on p3 700 without a hitch.
First, there is a huge difference between the impossibility (based on Newtonian mechanics as we understand it today) of creating the largest and fastest car and the desire to have a large and fast (just to keep it to two as in the car analogy) computer program. In the case of the large and fast auto there is the reality of Newtonian Physics in the way - these two (high mass and high acceleration) are directly opposed thus making it impossible to maximize both. However, there is no such physical constraint on a computer program - the physical size (lines of code) and the speed of execution are for all intent and purposes unrelated. Please get your facts straight before posting.
_________________
When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 9:48 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
I believe that the 7 Seriesis the size of a large sedan, but just ~two and a half seconds slower than a Diablo in the 0-100. 
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Make good choices. |
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 10:49 pm |
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killahsin
Guest
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What amazes me about this game is in fact the depth at which it has. People tend to slam it for lack o depth but In the end the reaility is that they lack the will to read the books, and search for the things explained in them. People tend to misconstrue the fact that there are quests npc's give you and also quests in those thousands of books. All that explain what is morrowind and how the world you are in came to be. To me that is depth. Perhaps you cannot interact on a scale like most linear rpg's but you have a choice. So do we, the few you call fanboys, our choice is that we like it. your choice on the other hand is that you do not like it. We won't hate you for your opinion, please do not hate us for ours.
to each his own. |
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Tue Jun 18, 2002 10:51 pm |
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Mattias Kreku
Magister of the Light
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 387
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I don't think anyone hates anyone here, but.. Frustration can look ugly in text sometimes.
Anyhow, to you the books are depth. Fine. To me depth is puzzles and several step quests, interactive npc's (although I played through the Kohan helmet mod.. the npc's in that were pretty funny but the mod lasted for about 10 minutes. still an improvement! more of that, Bethesda), an overall purpose. I read the books too and although they can give hints to items and quests they don't contribute as much so I would call it depth.
But you said it.. to each his own. |
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 12:22 am |
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Garon
Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Joey Nipps
First, there is a huge difference between the impossibility (based on Newtonian mechanics as we understand it today) of creating the largest and fastest car and the desire to have a large and fast (just to keep it to two as in the car analogy) computer program. In the case of the large and fast auto there is the reality of Newtonian Physics in the way - these two (high mass and high acceleration) are directly opposed thus making it impossible to maximize both.
Woah! I never mentioned anything about the fastest car or the largest car. I gave finite, achievable goals for mass and acceleration within the framework of both Newtonian mechanics and special relativity. I certainly never mentioned global (or even local) maxima.
If you wish to attack my car wish list, that's fine, but please make sure that you actually attack the argument I presented and not some idealized version that you made up. That's cheating.
Garon |
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 1:36 pm |
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Mattias Kreku
Magister of the Light
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 387
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Uhm.. I own a VW Rabbit. |
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 2:05 pm |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
quote:
Originally posted by Garon
Woah! I never mentioned anything about the fastest car or the largest car. I gave finite, achievable goals for mass and acceleration within the framework of both Newtonian mechanics and special relativity. I certainly never mentioned global (or even local) maxima.
Garon
Hmmm, perhaps not - it is true you were basically vague but your intent was very clear. You said you wanted: "0-60 in 5 seconds PLUS big enough to haul furniture or big-screen TVs PLUS enough seats to haul all your friends." Please now, this is essentially the same thing I said. 0-60 in 5 seconds is soooo very close to the very top acceleration for cars on the market AND being able to carry all that you mentioned puts this "car" you want to have in the very large truck department. So, say what you want - you DID say you wanted the biggest and the fastest car (or so very close that it isn't worth quibbling over).
_________________
When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 3:17 pm |
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Garon
Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
Garon, I hate you. Are you like my evil twin separated at birth I never knew about?
Well, I don't think I'm evil, and I don't really have any dragons in my family tree, but anything is possible, I suppose.
Garon |
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 8:44 pm |
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Garon
Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Joey Nipps
quote:
Originally posted by Garon
Woah! I never mentioned anything about the fastest car or the largest car. I gave finite, achievable goals for mass and acceleration within the framework of both Newtonian mechanics and special relativity. I certainly never mentioned global (or even local) maxima.
Garon
Hmmm, perhaps not - it is true you were basically vague but your intent was very clear. You said you wanted: "0-60 in 5 seconds PLUS big enough to haul furniture or big-screen TVs PLUS enough seats to haul all your friends." Please now, this is essentially the same thing I said. 0-60 in 5 seconds is soooo very close to the very top acceleration for cars on the market AND being able to carry all that you mentioned puts this "car" you want to have in the very large truck department. So, say what you want - you DID say you wanted the biggest and the fastest car (or so very close that it isn't worth quibbling over).
Actually, it makes a great deal of difference. Your argument rests, among other things, on the idea that having a vehicle of approximately SUV size (I never said it needed to haul all my furniture at once or carry my friends and furniture at the same time) with the ability to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in 5 seconds is physically impossible according to Newtonian mechanics.
Your statement misrepresented my analogy by saying that I want both maximum size and maximum acceleration. As we both know, Newton places no bounds on either of these properties, so maximum would mean infinite in both cases. This is obviously ludicrous and is also obviously not what I said about my dream car.
Since we are now back to what I actually said instead of what you said that I said, your claims need to be reexamined. Are you saying that it is physically impossible for a self-propelled object of approximately 2 tons in mass to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in 5 seconds? If so, please show me the mechanics that make it impossible.
Garon |
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Wed Jun 19, 2002 9:31 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Joey Nipps
However, there is no such physical constraint on a computer program - the physical size (lines of code) and the speed of execution are for all intent and purposes unrelated. Please get your facts straight before posting.
I make code for living, you obviously don't. And you tell me to get my facts straight. I'll say it one last time. Don't make rediculous claims about things you have no idea about. Please. Let it end there.
Besides, we are all still waiting on this wonderful example that already did all the things you claim are possible. And waiting, and waiting, and waiting...
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Thu Jun 20, 2002 3:02 am |
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Scrivener
Noble Knight
Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 223
Location: Australia |
I've spent hours playing games like "Jetpac" (in about 1983) so I'm not going to complain TOO much about Morrowind.
My attitude is: "It would have been nice if they could've spent more time on the story, but you can't have everything"
And just like back in 1983, a bit of imagination can help make up for limitations in the game itself...
I'm sure I won't remember much of the Morrowind story in a couple of years (I still think about Planescape and Fallout now and again) but I'm still having fun running round Vvardenfell. |
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Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:02 am |
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Joey Nipps
Orcan High Command
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 849
Location: Outer Space |
quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
quote:
Originally posted by Joey Nipps
However, there is no such physical constraint on a computer program - the physical size (lines of code) and the speed of execution are for all intent and purposes unrelated. Please get your facts straight before posting.
I make code for living, you obviously don't. And you tell me to get my facts straight. I'll say it one last time. Don't make rediculous claims about things you have no idea about. Please. Let it end there.
Once again, you make just a vague generalized comment with no specifics for me to discuss. But in answer to your vague comment - apparently unlike you I do know something about code and execution within a computer. First, the speed of execution of any given part of a program is NOT directly related to the size of the program (lines of code) and definately not ONLY to the size of the program. There are a number of reasons for this which I don't want to bother going into - you and everybody else should at least have this level of knowledge (particularly you IF you write code for a living). For example, the number of lines of code in any program likely comprise many different 'subroutines' all of which do not run simultaneously - thus the program may be quite large, but any given portion using the processor at any given moment might be quite small in comparison - thus the size of the program will not be reflected in the speed of execution as seen by the user (which after all is what we are talking about). There are at least several other contributing factors that would have to be discussed thoroughly in context to completely analyze any situation.
Further, even in the specific case one can make for a relationship between these two program parameters, this relationship is NOT as specific as the one held forth in the laws of physics (F=MA) which puts the relationship between the size (mass) of an object and it's acceleration (for practical purposes the speed in our car example. From this we can see that (for any given F which means for any given car engine) as the size (mass) of the car increases, the acceleration (speed for simplicity purposes in our car example) MUST be lower - there is nothing that can be done about this.
So, please, unless you wish to be more specific AND unless you wish to demonstrate either your lack of knowledge OR your intellectual dishonesty further, just drop the discussion.
quote:
Besides, we are all still waiting on this wonderful example that already did all the things you claim are possible. And waiting, and waiting, and waiting...
I have never said there was a game with ALL the functions at once - that is something you seem to wish I had said. I merely said that each of the functions that I have suggested should be in a quality CRPG HAVE been done before in other games. This then means that any company wishing to make the "end all" game (as Morrowind was supposed to be in loose terms) would need to incorporate all of these functions. I further said that with today's technology available, these should all be in this state of the art game - because there was NO technical reason for them not to be (I recognize there might be non-technical reasons). So you can wait and wait and wait - but you are waiting for something I never said existed.
_________________
When everything else in life seems to fail you - buy a vowel. |
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Thu Jun 20, 2002 11:48 am |
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