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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
| How does multiclassing work? |
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I've spent quite some time trying to figure out what the rules about it are, but the information is scarce to say the least.
They keep talking about multiclassing penalties, but nothing explains anywhere (that I could find) what those penalties are.
Also, they say that leveling multiclassed characters is much more difficult. How come? Is it just because that if you have 10 levels in one class and 2 in the other, you'll need 13th level xp to level your second class to 3? Or am I missing something more?
Official NWN site says 20th is the highest level. Does that mean cumulative level, like in BG, or can you reach 20th in every subclass? If it's cumulative, that's a good way to gimp your character. A Rogue(7)Paladin(7)Sorcerer(6) character would not stand a chance against either Rogue(20), Paladin(20), or Sorcerer(20) chars. Neither would Rogue(20), Paladin(20), or Sorcerer(20) chars really stand much of a chance against a Rogue(20)Paladin(20)Sorcerer(20) character. So which way is it?
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Tue Jul 09, 2002 5:35 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
I'm going to be harsh... RT*M 
The goods are on page 146 - 148 
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Make good choices. |
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Tue Jul 09, 2002 6:01 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
| Re: How does multiclassing work? |
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quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
Official NWN site says 20th is the highest level. Does that mean cumulative level, like in BG, or can you reach 20th in every subclass? If it's cumulative, that's a good way to gimp your character. A Rogue(7)Paladin(7)Sorcerer(6) character would not stand a chance against either Rogue(20), Paladin(20), or Sorcerer(20) chars. Neither would Rogue(20), Paladin(20), or Sorcerer(20) chars really stand much of a chance against a Rogue(20)Paladin(20)Sorcerer(20) character. So which way is it?
As far as I know, it's not cumulative. i.e. you can get a Fighter(20)/Rogue(20) without any constraint. But think about the time it would take a single character to reach these levels in even 2 classes!! More than a lifetime I think. Maybe an Elf could maybe aspire to do that with his/her long lifespan, but a not a human... I know we're talking about a computer game here and you can achieve whatever you put your mind to (like restarting the whole campaing by loading a module with a saved char). But as a DM I wouldn'T allow that kind of character. It's too powerful. It's godlike. The character gets to retire 
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Tue Jul 09, 2002 6:35 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by sauron38
I'm going to be harsh... RT*M
Sorry, but the manual has betrayed my trust more than once. I don't trust information in the manual any more. It either repeats useless information that is readily available in the game, or is actually wrong about the details it provides.
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Tue Jul 09, 2002 7:16 pm |
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Beo
Space Defender
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 542
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| Re: How does multiclassing work? |
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quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
Also, they say that leveling multiclassed characters is much more difficult. How come? Is it just because that if you have 10 levels in one class and 2 in the other, you'll need 13th level xp to level your second class to 3?
You get it right - the difference is the experience penalty. There are certain races exempt that however.
quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
Official NWN site says 20th is the highest level. Does that mean cumulative level, like in BG, or can you reach 20th in every subclass? If it's cumulative, that's a good way to gimp your character.
I thought it is cumlatative. Thus a Rogue(7)Paladin(7)Sorcerer(6) is equal to a 20 level character.
quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
that's a good way to gimp your character
Yes, it is. That is why the pure class is always more powerful than the mixed class but the latter has more fun. |
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Tue Jul 09, 2002 7:47 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
| Re: How does multiclassing work? |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ekim
As far as I know, it's not cumulative. i.e. you can get a Fighter(20)/Rogue(20) without any constraint. But think about the time it would take a single character to reach these levels in even 2 classes!! More than a lifetime I think. Maybe an Elf could maybe aspire to do that with his/her long lifespan, but a not a human... I know we're talking about a computer game here and you can achieve whatever you put your mind to (like restarting the whole campaing by loading a module with a saved char). But as a DM I wouldn'T allow that kind of character. It's too powerful. It's godlike. The character gets to retire
Sadly, that cannot happen. 20 is the maximum total of all class levels.
So far as I can tell, on all 3 times that I have read the manual, what I have found is mostly correct, save the spell icons. 
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Tue Jul 09, 2002 11:07 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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The triple classed character isn't a total washout compared to a single class character.
The hit points, saving throws, abilities, skills, and attack bonuses of all classes are added together. Thus a barbarian/fighter/ranger level 10/5/5 or something would have +20 attack bonus base, just like any one of those classes. He'd have 10d12 +5d10 + 5d10 hit points, and would add the saving throw bonuses of all the classes together.
he could rage a few times a day, would have more skills than a fighter, more feats than a barbarian or ranger, and still get a favored enemy.
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=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 4:56 am |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
Thx everybody.
Now another question about multiclassing.
Would it make sense to multiclass for specific purpose of gaining feats and other "perks?" For example, would it make sense to multiclass a sorcerer to get the cantrips and the familiar. Or multiclass a fighter (if you're something else) in order to get proficiencies in all weapons/armors.
For example, pick a rogue as your main class, then multiclass into a fighter at first oportunity. Then, at the next levelup select a wizard as your third. This will give you access to all of the spells, magic items, weapons and armors in the game. Then continue building your character as a rogue from that point on. You would end up as a level 18 rogue, but that has helluva lot more feats than any level 20 rogue. You may also get some extra feats from the fighter and wizard classes as they get extra feats, but I'm not sure how that would work. You would also have access to scrolls, items, weapons and armors that level 20 rogue woudln't have unless they wasted some feats on them. And you would also have a familiar to help out if necessary.
Is there anything wrong in the above picture? Or is that how it would work?
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:28 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
There is an XP penalty if any non-favoured class is more than one level away from the next non-favoured class. Middle of Page 148.
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Make good choices. |
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:52 pm |
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Beo
Space Defender
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 542
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quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
Would it make sense to multiclass for specific purpose of gaining feats and other "perks?" For example, would it make sense to multiclass a sorcerer to get the cantrips and the familiar. Or multiclass a fighter (if you're something else) in order to get proficiencies in all weapons/armors.
Yes, that is almost the idea. You sacifice to be the top of your pure class by getting other goodies from other classes.
quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
For example, pick a rogue as your main class, then multiclass into a fighter at first oportunity. Then, at the next levelup select a wizard as your third. This will give you access to all of the spells, magic items, weapons and armors in the game.
Some of the feats, and spells are ability-qualified. e.g. strength requirements (13+) for combat feat, intelligence score for higher level spells, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
Then continue building your character as a rogue from that point on. You would end up as a level 18 rogue, but that has helluva lot more feats than any level 20 rogue. You may also get some extra feats from the fighter and wizard classes as they get extra feats,
If you are doing a 18 rogue/1 fighter/1 wizard, you get three more bonus feats (2 from the first level fighter, 1 from the first level wizard) than the 20 rogue I believe. It does not count you as 20 fighter or 20 wizard toward the end but you get all the basic class feats. |
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:35 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
OK, I will shut up now... Sorry for the confusion. I shouldn'T even try to talk about this as I haven't even played 3e... 
/Ekim shuts his mouth and goes off in the shadows...
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:36 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Beo
If you are doing a 18 rogue/1 fighter/1 wizard, you get three more bonus feats (2 from the first level fighter, 1 from the first level wizard) than the 20 rogue I believe. It does not count you as 20 fighter or 20 wizard toward the end but you get all the basic class feats.
Don't you get all weapon and armor feats if you pick a fighter? That in itself would be... what? 5 feats? (simple and martial weapons, medium and heavy armors, shields) I don't have my manual here and the official site doesn't have info on feats.
I also know that the game wouldn't treat you as either Fighter(20) nor Wizard(20), but, how do their feat bonuses count? Do these bonuses count against class level or against the character level?
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:08 pm |
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Beo
Space Defender
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 542
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quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
Don't you get all weapon and armor feats if you pick a fighter? That in itself would be... what? 5 feats? (simple and martial weapons, medium and heavy armors, shields) I don't have my manual here and the official site doesn't have info on feats.
Yes to a point, I don't think Fighter comes with the exotic weapon feat. Since I play a cleric myself, being a fighter only gives 1 extra class feat. <--see where I come from. I don't know how NWN accounts for those weapon types with multi-classing neither.
quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
I also know that the game wouldn't treat you as either Fighter(20) nor Wizard(20), but, how do their feat bonuses count? Do these bonuses count against class level or against the character level?
The bonus feat are class and level based. Since you are not going to get those levels, there is no bonus. |
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Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:28 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Scenario: Level 1 fighter/level 1 wizard/level 18 Rogue
Total perks over level 20 Rogue: Martial Weapons, medium armor, heavy armor, 1 bonus feat, +2 fortitude save, +2 will save, ability to use arcane scrolls and magic items without spending points in use magic device, ability to cast first level arcane spells, hit point maxium increased by 2 hit points at the very end (1 level of fighter for 10 hit points, 1 level of wizard for 4. Rogue gets six... so maximum (not including con bonuses) would be 20 * 6 = 120 vs 18 * 6 + 10 + 4 = 122)... oooo ahhhh. ).
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 2:43 am |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
In order to test the feasibility of this, I rolled a new character. Primary is Rogue, with Barbarian(1) and Cleric(1). I picked the barbarian for the rage ability and speed increase. I picked exotic weapons as my 4th level feat. For the cleric, I picked Sun and War as well as extra turning for my first feat. So I got some serious turning undead going on as well as additional boost to my stats in a jam to compliment barbarian rage. For the rogue, I envision going with detection skills rather than stealth skills. So, I'll never be able to hide, but neither will my enemies. I did this primarily so I can wear bigger armors and not worry about the penalty against my hide skill.
For now, it's working out better than I hoped for. I know that this will change in not too distant future, as summoned dire badger stops being useful and such, but I still think this char has a future.
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Thu Jul 11, 2002 5:00 am |
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