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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
Big companies buy the rights to new technologies and then dumb the ideas into the garbagebin, because the new technology would put them out of business.
- A car was build with a top speed of 180 km/h, a radius of 700km and with normal weigth and size, and only needed a fuel of a distilled watermix, and had no hazard exhaust. Suddently dissappeared and newer heard about again!
- High effective and cheap Suncells, with only 1 m2 of size to supply the needs of electricity and heat in a house.
- A cheap synthetic fluid which could replace petrol and make less hazard exhaust.
- Cheaper and easier accessable medicines are invented, which can replace the very expensive ones, which people are depending on with there lifes.
And probably much more.
Even though some of the issues should be untrue, I'm still convinced that it happens out there.
Imagine when we develop Fussion-technology as our main power-source, using only water as fuel. It would change the worlds trade agreements, and for oil/coal supplying only countries it would be a disaster!
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Wed Oct 09, 2002 9:41 am |
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XeroX
The MasterCopy
Joined: 13 Dec 2001
Posts: 7125
Location: The Netherlands |
I don't think the would not bring cheaper medicenes on the market. The would just make the price as high as the want so the will make more profid.
If the others are true then that is really bad. One time the will have to face the new technologie, becasuse the world will be out of petrol
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Wed Oct 09, 2002 12:08 pm |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
quote:
Originally posted by XeroX
I don't think the would not bring cheaper medicenes on the market. The would just make the price as high as the want so the will make more profid.
If the others are true then that is really bad. One time the will have to face the new technologie, becasuse the world will be out of petrol
Regarding medicine: You are right about that they would make more profit on new medice with cheaper production cost, but the issue here is also inventions or discovers of other medicine sources, which maybe can be produced in your own kitchen with common ingredienses.
I'm also sure that new technologies can't be oppressed forever, either by the necessity from exhausted materials, or too many get the knowledge to develop the new technology, it's just sad to hear rumours about that the humanity probably already have set them self back for a few years now, and mayby much more years in the future. Well, ofcourse we could say, we managed to live without future technologies so far, so no need to rush. It have perhaps some truth in it, but with all these major problems earth has right now, and have had quite sometime now, and the problems are getting bigger and bigger, I think we are in a race against developing new and better technologies before it's to late!
I think about, Energy, pollution, decreased resources, famine, diseases, poverty, animals and more
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Wed Oct 09, 2002 1:25 pm |
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txiabxyooj
Fox Spirit
Joined: 06 Dec 2001
Posts: 971
Location: here, there & everywhere |
the drug industry here in the states is deplorable. they claim that they charge high prices in order to fund research...when last year their budget for marketing was three times larger than their research budget.
another scary fact is that the major automobile companies during the early 20th century spent large amounts of money buying up public transit systems. once the sale was complete they would close the transit in order to make people dependant on their product, the car. now americans dump billions of dollars a year into a product that they could do without if the proper public transit system was in place. this is big business at its best.
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Wed Oct 09, 2002 7:21 pm |
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goshuto
Wanderer
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1142
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael C
and for oil/ coal supplying only countries it would be a disaster!
Oil countries are pretty much screwed anyway, since their oil supply isn't going to last forever. Besides, fuel-cell powered cars are just around the corner; I predict about one decade for they to start becoming common, perhaps two decades at most.
quote:
Originally posted by txiabxyooj
the drug industry here in the states is deplorable. they claim that they charge high prices in order to fund research...when last year their budget for marketing was three times larger than their research budget.
Let me assure you, that doesn't happen in the US only...
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Wed Oct 09, 2002 8:13 pm |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
Yup, the bigger the business gets, the nastier their methods are, even in suppressing superior technology.
There's another factor that I've been thinking about a lot recently, the hard gap between invetion and innovation.
Invention = discovering new invetions, creating new methods
Innovation = making these inventions to an actual manufacturable, viable product that will work in real world. (and sell)
A lot of superior technology has disappeared because the lack of innovation between them, or because of unfavorable market situation. For example, the Beta-format lost the battle to VHS not because it was worse, but because the less effective marketing and licencing schemes.
Sometimes it's really saddening to read about good products and inventions and knowing that they'll never get the chance they deserve.
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Wed Oct 09, 2002 11:03 pm |
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txiabxyooj
Fox Spirit
Joined: 06 Dec 2001
Posts: 971
Location: here, there & everywhere |
it is darwinism at its best. not the biggest or strongest products survive just those that are more suited to the area where they are co-existing. this means that, as mdrop points out, often the products that "make it" aren't the best products. the only other option is to find a markatable niche. an example of this is TOM'S OF MAINE products--which are healthy alternatives to everyday products like toothpaste and shampoo. it is interesting because not everyone would try this type of product. but, if you market it in the right spot (i.e. health buff stores & yuppie strongholds) it is amazing how well this sort of product can do. or, think about alternative films or music. you put them in a mainline store or theater and they quickly become dusty and their sell by date eventually expires. however, you stick them in an ecclectic little market somewhere in down town soho and you have a best seller. funny how it all works! but, you place britney spears in the same store and she'll be there forever. whereas, bigger chain stores can sell her garbage by the truck load.
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Fri Oct 11, 2002 8:25 pm |
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Erb Duchenne
Slayer
Joined: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 987
Location: malaysia |
It is well documented that these things happen. But I doubt a company will buy a technology and completely bury it. Usually, they're buying out a technology they already were working on, but someone else came up with the solution first. But it doesn't always work favorably for the corporate purchaser either.
One example is Miscrosoft ( good ol') They developed the Access database, but were looking for something more powerful. So they acquired Foxpro... and learned it was actually no better than Access. Finally, they bought over SQL server, and up to MS SQL 6, they were still using the bought code. From SQL 7 onwards though, it was pure, re-engineered code.
But as the saying goes: Just because a product is good, it doesn't mean people will buy. They first have to know about it.
Advertising is the staple for all big corporations. Besides, who'd go for the punchline: our drugs are expensive because we spend a lot on advertising? That, in itself, is bad advertising. Companies like Amway and NuSkin promote their products by saying they DON'T spend on advertising, thus implying they spend more on research and product quality. This is true... but are their products really THAT much better? Why ain't the WHOLE world using them? Oh, you first have to sign up as distributor to use the products... and... the products aren't as attractive as what you see on TV and the billboards!
I believe that, if a technology s good, it will surface. Sooner or later.
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Fri Oct 11, 2002 9:46 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
It's not just companies that try to restrict competitive technologies; whole countries do, although by other means.
Australia exports a large amount of coal and so our government has not supported the Kyoto Protocol (unfortunately). This encourages the continued use of fossil fuels and suppresses the (commercial) value of alternative energy sources.
This view is short-sighted and prefers maintaining the short-term economic status over the future potential of new energy developments. If my government valued these alternatives, the extra research could put us in a leading position in a new economy, exporting these technologies to the world. Instead, we'll import it from someone smarter as always.
Like Erb said, suppressed technologies will surface eventually and I believe the companies that suppressed them are missing the opportunity to be the leaders. They'll start spending more and more money on marketing trying to keep their current technology in demand but eventually a company that has embraced new technology will grab the advantage. |
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Sun Oct 13, 2002 2:00 am |
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txiabxyooj
Fox Spirit
Joined: 06 Dec 2001
Posts: 971
Location: here, there & everywhere |
it is sad, but that is the way of the world. it is too bad that many governments are run by the very people who own the "old" companies. for example our own (by own i mean US) government is currently headed by an oil man. so, is it any suprise that bush is more interested in drilling for oil in our national parks than developing new technologies? nope. i think that too many politicians have a conflict of interest when it comes to technology and developing new technology. too many of them are in the old businesses and therefore they are going to place votes that will support their interests and not those of the every day consumer. so it looks like it will be a while before "alternative" fuel sources are properly explored and made viable.
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Wed Oct 16, 2002 6:02 pm |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
In the 1970's the experts predicted that the oil reserves would be empty in the beginning of the 21th century as in now, but during the 80's and 90's the world discovered so many new rich oil supplies, that the oil reserves maybe will last another 30-40 years from now! I'm not sure that the urge for new "energy" technology has been reduced in these regards, but the talk about windmills, wavebreakers, suncells and other alternative energy sources has certainly lost it's interest in Denmark for sure. We got slowed down on a level, where we don't find it so urgent to find alternative energy sources anymore.
Another case last summer in Denmark, was maybe not about suppressed technology, but more about suppressed knowledge! It was about suntan lotion or sunblockers. A highly respected research center in Switzerland, had by extended research found 4 chemical ingredienses in typical sunblockers which actually was highly unhealthy causing hormone disturbance, and very ironical skin cancer. In fact many sunblockers was told to cause frequently more often cancer than the sunrays! Problem was the 4 chemical dangerous ingredienses was in about 90% of all chemical sunblockers, and almost in none of the physical sunblockers. Many of the big names in producing sunblockers "Umbre", "Nivea" and many more was hit by this report. In Denmark many stores removed all bad sunblockers from the shelves, but the state Denmark would not prohibit them until they made their own investigations. Fair enough we thought, we just keep away from the potential dangerously sunblockers until further investigation was made. Ofcourse many big sunblocker producers made their own tests, and not surprisingly found out a few days later that nothing was true about dangerous chemicals in their sunblockers. However almost one year later the danish laboratories, with connection to the switzerland laboratories, concluded almost the same danger from the 4 common chemicals in sunblockers, but the reports was heavily criticized by the producers for many reasons. It all ended up with no prohibition of the products, just with a recommendation not to use the cremes on kids under 12 years! A subsequent discussion was to demand labels on the products about it's potential danger like on cigarettes, but no not even that!
Same as the chemical product called "Aspartam" which should replace sugar, as a very low sweet calorie product, highly used in "light" sodawater instead of sugar (Cola light, yuk). Many sources have already confirmed it's potential to generate cancer, and US and maybe in other places to this product already comes with a hazard label, at least if you use it as sweetener in coffee or tea. In Denmark is their no information about it's danger, eventhough we made the same conclussions in the laboratories!
I guess heavy financial interest are at stake here!
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Thu Oct 17, 2002 10:53 am |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
quote:
Originally posted by Michael C
- A car was build with a top speed of 180 km/h, a radius of 700km and with normal weigth and size, and only needed a fuel of a distilled watermix, and had no hazard exhaust. Suddently dissappeared and newer heard about again!
I read several articles about this. Generaly I just hope and partly believe that all or bigger part of this ideas will come again, maybe later that without this companies, but they are not lost. |
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Thu Oct 17, 2002 3:21 pm |
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Erb Duchenne
Slayer
Joined: 08 Jun 2002
Posts: 987
Location: malaysia |
quote:
Originally posted by Michael C
In the 1970's the experts predicted that the oil reserves would be empty in the beginning of the 21th century as in now, but during the 80's and 90's the world discovered so many new rich oil supplies, that the oil reserves maybe will last another 30-40 years from now! I'm not sure that the urge for new "energy" technology has been reduced in these regards...
Oil will remain the major source of vehicular power for at least the next twenty years or more and there's no doubt about that. The only way it's in danger is if a newer, more viable; meaning cheaper and more convenient method can be introduced. And nothing really is in site for the next 20 years at least. Fuel cells are attractive, if we can harness hydrogen from water easily. We can't yet at the moment.
quote:
Another case last summer in Denmark, was maybe not about suppressed technology, but more about suppressed knowledge! It was about suntan lotion or sunblockers. A highly respected research center in Switzerland, had by extended research found 4 chemical ingredienses in typical sunblockers which actually was highly unhealthy causing hormone disturbance, and very ironical skin cancer.
That's interesting.
quote:
Same as the chemical product called "Aspartam" which should replace sugar, as a very low sweet calorie product, highly used in "light" sodawater instead of sugar (Cola light, yuk). Many sources have already confirmed it's potential to generate cancer, and US and maybe in other places to this product already comes with a hazard label
Also interesting. Aspartame has been around commercially for nearly 40 years now, but the longer it has been around and the more people have been using it the better we can study effects from long term use of the product.
Are there any good sources on the internet on info for these two topics?
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Thu Oct 17, 2002 5:42 pm |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
About hydrogen-powered vehicles.
I think the new GM Hy-wire project is looking good. I read about it when they first introduced the new AUTOnomy-concept and it looked good, but I doubted that it would never see the light of day.
But now they have a working prototype. It looks nice, unlike may of the hydrogen cars that have been introduced in the past years. The idea of just replacing a combustion engine with a hydrogen version and leaving the rest of the car identical won't work. I'm glad that GM has realized that and developed a whole new concept around hydrogen-powered cars.
They even have a working and approved method of raising the fuel tank pressure to 700bars, raising the effective range to 500km, which is pretty good.
Ofcourse it will take 5-10 years to make this into a mass-production car, but I think this idea could actually make it.
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Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:50 pm |
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txiabxyooj
Fox Spirit
Joined: 06 Dec 2001
Posts: 971
Location: here, there & everywhere |
i think GM is wise to invest in this new technology. the pay-off now may not be high but their research could place them at the fore front of a new revolution in vehicles. it is the impulse to innovate and invent that often allows one company to survive while other dwindle and fail. just look at the airline industry or the computer industry.
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"The origin of things, if things have an origin, cannot be revealed to me, if revealed at all, until I have travelled very far from it, and many revolutions of the sun must precede my first dawn. The light as it appears hides the candle." --Santayana
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Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:58 pm |
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