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Moriendor
Black Ring Leader
Joined: 19 Jul 2001
Posts: 1306
Location: Germany |
| Alrik's Different Angle: Is KotOR A Star Wars Game Or Not? |
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Alrik on the implementation of D&D rules in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic...<blockquote><em>With „Star Wars : Knights of the Old Republic“ kind of a dream came true.
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<br>It’s the very first real Star Wars role-playing game made for the PC.
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<br>But this particular implementation doesn’t make me too happy. Here’s why.
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<br>Role-playing game systems are the rule sets used for a role-playing game. You know, it’s just like that.
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<br>These Systems can be quite different from one another, and they can be diverse.
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<br>But there is one rule I have seen almost everywhere : A certain role-playing game uses a certain role playing system, like an engine beneath everything.
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<br>I haven’t ever seen a role-playing game using a rule set from a different system.</em></blockquote><br>...<a href="http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10053&ID=817">more</a>... |
Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:49 pm |
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DeusIrae
Guest
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Um. The recent Wizards of the Coast pen-and-paper Star Wars roleplaying game uses the d20 system. That is, it uses the same ability scores, saving throws, and derived statistics as D&D, although the skill lists, the classes, and the magic/force system are different. I haven't played KOTOR, so I don't know how deep their implementation is (I suspect they omitted Vitality Points, for one thing), but they are using the most recent Star Wars RPG as their base.
In fact, there are a ton of games that use the d20 mechanics, most of them not even made by Wizards of the Coast -- Mutants and Masterminds, Midnight, Scarred Lands, Arcana Unearthed, Spycraft, and so on. This is because when D&D 3.0 came out, Wizards introduced the Open Gaming License, which allowed any company to publish supplements for D&D or completely new games using similar systems, subject to a few restrictions. I'd suggest you google "OGL", "d20", and so on to get a more complete explanation.
And might I also suggest that you might want to do a bit more research before writing in the future? |
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Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:57 pm |
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Guest
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I think he's just over-analyzing things. Who really care which ruleset it's using? You're going to deprive yourself of playing a great game because you're not sure if you like the fact that it's using a certain ruleset? |
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Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:03 pm |
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Kendrik
Thin Blue Line
Joined: 13 Jun 2002
Posts: 550
Location: England |
To echo what DeusIrae said - the New SWRPG is a D20 game therefore the rules will look very similar to D&D 3E. Again I would suggest that perhaps a little more research is needed before posts like this are made.
_________________
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true."
JAMES BRANCH CABELL
~Member of The Nonflamers' Guild~
~~Champion of the (Unofficial) RPGdot Text Signature Contest 2002~~ |
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Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:13 pm |
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niteshade
Guest
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It is in fact quite amusing that he complains how they aren't using the rules to WoTC's Star Wars rpg, when in fact they are (with some changes of course). But oh well, everyone makes mistakes I guess. |
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Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:30 pm |
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Stric9
Guest
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This is one of the most inane and stupid things I have ever read, I really hope this is a joke. |
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Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:54 pm |
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Alrik Fassbauer
Head Merchant
Joined: 25 Aug 2002
Posts: 50
Location: Germany |
Hello, everyone.
I just wanted to stress that this is a highly subjective point of view.
I 'm not that deep into the D20 system, but since it's used almost everywhere nowadays ( as far as I know makers of RPGs don't need to pay a license fee for using this system), I tend to say that everything is D&D nowadays. 
I think that's just the same point of view turned upside down.
I wouldn't think of other RPGs using the Midgard rule-set or something similar. It might well be that new times have arisen, where the use of a rule-set isn't no more bound to a special "Universe" (like what wer've seen with the d20 system), but that on the other hand leads me to the question why they just hadn't used another system but d20 or D&D for KOTOR ?
However, I did some research, but everywhere I read that the game "uses the D&D system". Nothing more. Therefore I assumed that KOTOR actually uses the original (A)D&D system.
It's true that I might be overanalysing things, but well, that's how my brain works.
I'm not just playing RPGs , I want to know what's lying the basement of them, I want to look "behind the mask".
And you cannot deny that - in principle - the popularity of the d20 system has increased dramatically while giving it "free" to implement other RPGs with it.
Clever way of marketing, so to say.
Alrik. |
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Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:54 pm |
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The Griffin
Guest
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So what is your problem with the game then?
There is a roleplaying game on the shelf -- licensed from LUCAS -- called Star Wars. It's a d20 game, which means it uses the D&D rule systems as its basis, and moves on from there.
Are you saying *that* pen and paper game system is *also* not Star Wars?
Well, it might not be your favorite version -- I'll accept that -- but in terms of a computer game, I personally don't care.
If the story of the CRPG is good, if the game is compelling, if I get engrossed ni what's going on, I don't care if the random number generator is choosing between a range of 1-20 once modified by stat bonus or 1-6 as many times as yor stat allows. It just doesn't matter.
The important part of the game is the universe, anyway. It's *Star Wars*, not West End Games or Wizards of the Coast, that people want to play. You know -- the Force, Jedi Knights, droids, wookies. |
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Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:07 pm |
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matthias
Village Dweller
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 6
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Thankyou for you comments. I did not even know this and was going to buy Kotor but I many things have changed my mind. However I will stay on topic. This is why I believe Alriks point is valid. If I want to play a D&D game I will go out and buy one. If I want to play a Star Wars game I will go out and buy one. A Star Wars game with D&D mechanics is just a D&D game tweaked a little with Star Wars eye candy for me to play. Think about it Jedi's are perfect "mages" so we will give them certain "spells" . They could easily port over everything D&D except guns which after having read reviews find out that guns eventually cancel out further in the story. Most D&D games "on the computer" suck at archers you can hardly make one. most of the time you need to also give them decent up close skills to. The reviews seem to even point that out. Which in the Star Wars could go either way. Sometimes long range weapons were the only way to kill a jedi. At least that is a major reason how the Emperer(sorry forget how to spell it) and Darth Vader exterminated a lot of the Jedi. At least from the Book Series. Which is a notable source. All this to say would you rather get a star wars game that is a star wars game in all areas not weak in one reason because the engine(D&D) is weak in that reason. Kudos Alrik and thankyou, |
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Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:17 pm |
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Kloetenotto
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 30
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I dont think that in CRPGs the rule-set matters so much but its implementation.
If KOTOR used the Infinity Engine I'd agree and say "Baldurs Gate in Space" but since the actual gameplay is totally different I never felt like playing another D&D game. |
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Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:25 pm |
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matthias
Village Dweller
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 6
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Ok Ok I might be following you. Question though aren't there certain drawbacks in certain engines? I do not know this specific ruleset. It may have been created with such a neutral style that it can be adapted to any form of game. If so then I could see how it would work well. Basically I just came to conclusions they might be wrong conclusions. I can do that often. Although with knowing this I do lean towards not buying the game because in the Star Wars universe I enjoy the blaster aspects and less of the magelike jedi's |
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Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:40 pm |
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Kloetenotto
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 30
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Hi matthias,
I play the game as a lightsaber-melee fighter, so I can't tell much about blaster battles.
Don't worry too much about force-powers though, most enemies can easily be defeated without them. I use them quiet a lot cause I think they are cool but if you don't like them just choose "Jedi Guardian" as your class and forget them. |
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Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:18 pm |
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Greymarch
Guest
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My goodness, that first post was stupid.
KoToR uses a slightly modified version of the d20 Star Wars roleplaying game. The current version of D&D (3.5) also uses a modified version of the d20 roleplaying system. KoToR certainly does not use the original D&D rules. Those were created in the mid-70s, and died out over 15 years ago.
Lucasfilm puts its stamp of approval on absolutely anything that has to do with Star Wars. The people who are responsible for the d20 Star Wars games dont make a move without Lucasfilm first approving it. The d20 Star Wars system is the OFFICIAL rules-set for any type of Star Wars roleplaying game, so it is only appropriate that KoToR uses this system. Lucasfilm is in COMPLETE control of their license. They either told Bioware to use the d20 rules for KoToR, or the approved of them using the d20 rules. Either way, Bioware did the right thing by implementing this system into their game. If they hadnt, I would have been disappointed. I am an avid player of the d20 Star Wars game, and since they used those rules for KoToR, it made the game even more enjoyable for me.
For the life of me, I cannot figure out what that first poster was trying to say. Either English is a 2nd language for him, or he just enjoys reading his own silly ramblings. |
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Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:19 pm |
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Zagorin
Village Dweller
Joined: 23 Sep 2002
Posts: 19
Location: Alexandroupoli,Greece |
This game does not feel like D&D games with Jedis . Its feel is rather unique. You haven't play the game but you are complaining about the badness of it because it uses the D20 ruleset. Well, if you play this game, you will find that your comments are unfound and rather amusing. |
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Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:27 pm |
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niteshade
Guest
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It's actualy worth noting that in the current implementation of D&D, archers are often considered overpowered and way better then close combat types. This was fixed somewhat in 3.5, and some people might debate it, but my point is that you can hardly say ranged weapons being bad is a symptom of the D&D rules. If anything it's a strong departure from D&D rules.
Anyway like others have said, you should play the game before making judgements on it. In fact if your not that up on the actual p&p games (which it's clear your not) you probably won't even find that much which reminds you of D&D. |
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Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:00 pm |
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