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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
| Icewind dale 2 versus TOEE |
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Can anybody here point out the major gameplay differences between "Icewinddale 2" and "Temple of evil elements" besides the".5" in the AD&D rules in TOEE, and probably slightly better graphics in TOEE as well.
I'm trying to get an idea of TOEE before buying it, and my impression from the reviews is a Icewinddale 2 game in newer wrappings, and I just wanted to know if I'm way off the track here.
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Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:31 am |
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Zakhal
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 188
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ToEE wins hands town but it needs to patch to work. ToEE turn-based combat combat is just the best ive seen for ages. |
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Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:05 pm |
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stanthony
One Smart Dog
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 556
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
I only had about 3-4 hours on ToEE so far, but I got a feeling, that generally there are more quests/conversations in IWD2 than in ToEE. Of course you must consider different allignment reactions of NPC and other things, but I thought that generally there were more things to do (besides hacking things) in IWD2. Which doesn't make it a better game necessarily.
I think this thread asks for Xen's opinion. And probably another review of him 
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- Druids do not fight with metal weapons! Sit here, and you over here. Put the elbows of your right arms on the table...
- Arm-pulling? Get me back me pan!
R.A.Salvatore The Cleric Quintet. Canticle |
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Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:53 pm |
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Arma
Mysterious Lady
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 1230
Location: in the middle of hell |
Hmm, I think that IceWind Dale 2 was a far more linear than ToEE, but that is what I think. And I also think (I have to admit that find where i had Left my head help a lot to this process) that the 3,5 edition of the D'n'D is done far better in ToEE than the 3rd edition in Icewind Dale 2 |
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Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:13 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Well, let's see...
The biggest difference is that TOEE is actually using D&D3 rules. Not some hybrid like Icewind Dale 2 did, or even Neverwinter Nights. When I proclaimed that I could not envision a better rules implementation than the ones found in Neverwinter Nights so boldly during my NWN review I should have known that eventually something would make me eat my words.
In truth, aside from a few BUGS with some numbers in TOEE... and the absence of grappling (some monsters can do it, so I know it's coded in... but the designers elected to not make it a combat tactic for PCs) the rules in TOEE are incredibly solid.
TOEE is not as linear as IWD2 by far. You may chose to hack where you want wherever you want and can even lose the plot if you're not careful. IWD2 forces you from area to area with a noose around your neck.
The graphics, naturally, are much smoother and even the 2d painted backgrounds in TOEE are better than the excellent backgrounds in IWD2.
Where the comparison is made is that both IWD2 and TOEE are party based, story light CRPGs. Of course... TOEE has many possible endings (at least three I've found so far) and dozens of ways of getting there and IWD2 has one and only one way of getting there.
In the end, they're both dungeon crawls... but TOEE doesn't make you feel like you're being led by the nose while doing it. Plus, you can cast teleport and go to town whenever you feel like it once you learn the teleport spell... which makes it the most authentic D&D experience so far (stone of recall silliness from NWN doesn't count).
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Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:54 pm |
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Remus
Overgrown Cat
Joined: 03 Jul 2002
Posts: 1657
Location: Fish bowl |
sound/music
In term of sound effects IWD2 & TOEE pretty much in same league. However i think IWD2 has more variety of background music (for different chapters) than in TOEE.
Graphics
TOEE has better graphics than IWD2.
Combat
Greatly depend on player whether he/she prefers pure turn-based or not.
rule set
Although TOEE using D&D 3.5 rule set compare to the older edition in IWD2, this only become important if the player is ruleplayer instead of roleplayer.
Story & quest
IWD2 containing better/more interesting side-quests, and more story than TOEE.
Linearity
IWD2 is more linear than TOEE. But TOEE is small game anyway, only several places you can visit.
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Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:58 pm |
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stanthony
One Smart Dog
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 556
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
quote:
Originally posted by Remus
Story & quest
IWD2 containing better/more interesting side-quests, and more story than TOEE.
Woooohhhhh... Thank you, Remus, I started to think I was all wrong  Or that I am so biased towards IWD series that I'm starting to see things 
_________________
- Druids do not fight with metal weapons! Sit here, and you over here. Put the elbows of your right arms on the table...
- Arm-pulling? Get me back me pan!
R.A.Salvatore The Cleric Quintet. Canticle |
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Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:02 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
ToEE has capes! Real actual capes! I haven't seen a real nicely animated cape since Quest for Glory 1! It's been far too long.
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:46 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I think ToEE's turn-based combat is spectacularly good which is a pretty solid point to have in a dungeon crawl. The combat is good enough for me to say ToEE is the more enjoyable game - but almost as a strategic combat game rather than an RPG.
That said, IWD2 has a better story, more interesting NPCs and quests and feels a little more "epic" (great music too).
I'd love to see the ToEE engine used for a module with a wider scope and a little more narrative.
And I agree with Val - Capes! Yay!
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 4:57 am |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
Thanks all together for all your reply's, it has been very helpfull.
I forgot about the turn based combat, I had read it somewhere. I have absolutely no problems with turnbased combat, if it's well done, which seems to be the general impression here.
I sense from your comments that TOEE is story drained, at least compared to IWD2.
Is the unofficial patch good enough, to take care of the many problems you here about the game, or would it be better to wait for the official patch?
Otherwise I would probably wait for the demo to come out before buying. (Hear that they prepare a demo, but maybe they have their hands full in making this needed patch.)
@Xen: I see you snatched this thread to your own D&D forum. No problem with that I probably got more answers there, I was just wondering, if you set up a "reply-watcher", will it still work after a thread has been moved?
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:41 am |
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stanthony
One Smart Dog
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 556
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
quote:
Originally posted by Michael C
Otherwise I would probably wait for the demo to come out before buying. (Hear that they prepare a demo, but maybe they have their hands full in making this needed patch.)
Michael, you can go for KaZaa version of ToEE. It is sort of trial - full game without movies and with 6 (?) hours gameplay limit. Works better than demo, I think, as it is *full* game otherwise. I believe it still should be available on KaZaa with links on official site, though I'm not sure as I bought the box as soon as I could.
_________________
- Druids do not fight with metal weapons! Sit here, and you over here. Put the elbows of your right arms on the table...
- Arm-pulling? Get me back me pan!
R.A.Salvatore The Cleric Quintet. Canticle |
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 10:29 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I have no ability to snatch threads from CRPG general... I suspect a certain angelically avatared guardian is the culprit. 
I haven't seen the kaaza demo advertised... by now I wouldn't be sure as to which was 'legit' 6 hour limited and which was hacked to remove the 6 hour limit and play the game (without any music).
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:37 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
Well, if the advertising on my little brother's computer is right, you can get it off of "Morpheus".
I ought to tan hide his hide. Sitting there whinning about slowdowns when he's got garbage like that on his system. 
*ahem*
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:42 pm |
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greyskull
Village Dweller
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 17
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my buddy played the free trial before he got ToEE.. he said it was what got him addicted, and ultimately caused him to buy the game... im not sure if all the game content in on the trial game (i think most is) but if nothing else, it would give you a basic idea of waht the games premise is.. i would do it.. oh... and i just got ToEE... i love it, it is one of the most addictive games i have ever played... and if you play in Ironman mode, it is insanely difficult (for me anyways) |
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:35 pm |
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Michael C
Black Dragon
Joined: 09 Jul 2001
Posts: 1595
Location: Aarhus, Denmark |
So, all the game bugs all the reveiws are talking about, are really not that bad, or is it mostly if you play certain characters (magic users, clerics)???
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Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:34 pm |
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