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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
quote:
Originally posted by Val
quote:
Originally posted by Managarm
I.e. does loaning a book to a friend count as theft? The friend is getting to, hopefully, enjoy the work without paying anything to the author or publisher. Is this not the exact same thing that people do when they download entire albums.
Yes, it is theft.
However, the publisher won't go after the guy lending a book to a friend. They just lent it to one friend.
People sharing songs on the internet are "lending" it to anyone with an internet connection (That was quite a few hundred million people last I looked). That tends to piss off the creator a lot more. A few hundred million times more. 
So, the morality of the issue is determined by whether there is punishment? Or by the scale of the transgression? Hmm, if I kill a dozen people, I'm gonna hang, but if I kill only one, it's acceptable. And, if the authorities choose not to pursue it, then it's acceptable?
quote:
Originally posted by Val
quote:
Originally posted by Managarm
Isn’t library:books the same as internet:MP3s?
No.
The library has a contract with the publisher to lend the book.
You sure about that? My library lends items that are donated by patrons. No contract.
quote:
Originally posted by Val
quote:
Originally posted by Managarm
MP3s both increase and decrease sales at the same time, so which one is greater, the up or the down? True record sales are down, but is it because of MP3s, or because of more albums being unoriginal and/or uninteresting? Well, nobody knows for sure and nobody can prove it either way.
Be completely honest with me, how many people who download songs off the interent actually go out and buy the album?
Umm, me. Not always, but on a regular basis. And, in fact, I often purchase CDs I wouldn't have bought without sampling them first.
quote:
Originally posted by Val
quote:
Originally posted by Managarm
If I download only the songs that are played on the radio, this is the line I draw for myself, is this any different then saving the sample chapters I see on an author’s website?
The difference is that the radio station has a contract with that musician or their publishing company. You don't.
The radio station went to the effort to ask to play their song or were approached by the musician because the musician wanted their song on that radio station. You didn't bother to ask and I doubt the musician asked you to play the song on your computer.
Whatever happened to common courtesy? Tsk, tsk.
What does the radio station's contract have to do with the issue? The question concerns an individual user. The relationship of a person taping copyrighted music off the radio to the artist has nothing to do with any agreements between the radio station and the artist.
_________________
=Proud Member of the Non-Flamers Guild=
=Benevolent Dictator, X2/X3 and Morrowind/Oblivion Forums=
Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
Wed Oct 01, 2003 3:33 am |
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stanthony
One Smart Dog
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 556
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
Jazz FM (www.jazzfm.com). Very cool! 
_________________
- Druids do not fight with metal weapons! Sit here, and you over here. Put the elbows of your right arms on the table...
- Arm-pulling? Get me back me pan!
R.A.Salvatore The Cleric Quintet. Canticle |
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Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:01 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
quote:
Originally posted by Managarm
Only one dictionary term, but I still say it is subjective because stealing is subjective. I.e. does loaning a book to a friend count as theft? The friend is getting to, hopefully, enjoy the work without paying anything to the author or publisher. Is this not the exact same thing that people do when they download entire albums. Isn’t library:books the same as internet:MP3s?
You two are having fun and I don't want to get into the middle of it but just once quick note. Apart from Val's point about the scale of internet sharing, there's another fundamental difference between between lending a book (or even an actual original CD/DVD for that matter).
When you lend a book to a friend, you are no longer able to enjoy that product yourself until the original is returned - this places a natural limit on lending. With shared MP3s (or pirate copies of anything else), an unlimited number of people can simultaneously enjoy the benefit, without loss or limit to the original purchaser. |
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Sun Oct 05, 2003 2:00 am |
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Managarm
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 27
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Had to drive to Oklahoma, long drive, so that’s why it took me so long to respond.
During the long drive back this argument came to mind and so I had many fun arguments prepared for when I got back. (Long pause) But then I read the thread about the Half-Life 2 software being stolen. (much frustration) That kind of took all the fight out of me. It’s like when you support the Confederate Flag and then the KKK joins your cause, it just makes you want to give up so that they’ll loose too. My entire plan for this argument essentially was to get you to go after the people who outright abuse the ability to download things of the internet and then point out that I only download songs to determine if I will buy the CD or not and radio singles. And then I would strengthen my argument on fair use and how I, I being the key word, keep myself to a certain standard, thus am not one of the people that most anti-piracy arguments are based on. But to hell with it! I do not feel bad about downloading songs, but then I try to hold myself to a different standard then most people likely do. I still think that downloading only radio releases counts, in my mind, as fair use, but I will admit that most people who download various things go too far, and some like MR. I Have the HL2 Source Code, that go way too far. So if there were a way to stop internet piracy completely, which there will never be -short of 1984- then I would support it. But in the mean time I will download radio singles with a clear conscience. Though I can’t say that my opinion wouldn’t change were I not such a big fan of Ramen Noodles. (I bet that there is a lot of you, over the age of 18, who will get that)
Thus, for once, I concede an argument. (But don't expect it to every happen again  ) |
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Mon Oct 06, 2003 11:39 pm |
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Scribbles
Unsent
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 1063
Location: Spokane, WA. US of A |
Die Sonne? ok, that sounds right. at least i can remember key words  almost
anyway,
Presidents of the United States of America - Peaches
im movin to the country, gonna eat me a lot of peaches....
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Broken in Exile |
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Tue Oct 07, 2003 5:43 am |
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Gothic Soul
Master of Shadows
Joined: 27 Aug 2002
Posts: 682
Location: Underdark |
HAHA Back To This:
I second what dteowner said very well at suting some people. It has been proven that persons who downloads music over the internet 87% of them buy much more cd's like 3 times more. The other 13% is still buying Cd's on a regular basis and the same quantity of cd's mybe a little less but why? cause some artist make cd's with the singles beign great and then the other 13 songs are fillers. I now know a lot of bands more so I Buy triple the quantity than before p2p existed. I now go to concerts yeaahhhh!!! Metallica is coming to PR. Bands that before old like 5k or 10k worldwide because they weren't known now sell the triple of that now they got concerts full of fans. just like Cold in the album Year of The Spiders says in the song Kill the music Industry: "Sick of all this monotany, Kill the f***** music industry". Thats It later.
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"Whow, the necromancer is here" -Bartacus to myself |
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Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:06 pm |
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Ozymandias
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 319
Location: Otherland |
Thin Lizzy - Noone told him
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"There is no way around it. Correct is correct. I am correct, therefore I win."
Roqua
Disclaimer: I can not be held responsible for anything whatsoever as a result of you reading this post. |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:35 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Somehow I knew this topic would bring up the subject of file sharing. Concerning my musical tastes, I listen to:
The Offspring
System of a Down
Rage Against the Machine (It's nice to hear some antigovernment stuff every once and awhile  )
Tool
The Mighty Mighty Bosstones (the only ska group I can handle)
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OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:55 pm |
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Iron Man
Dazed and Confused
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 773
Location: Location Location |
Bohemian Rhapsody, the new "official" anthem of the CCF.
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This box secretly turns into a picture and laughs at YOU personally when you're not looking. |
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:50 pm |
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Hagen
Counselor of the King
Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 350
Location: England |
Socialburn - just a game.mp3
_________________
"There are many questions which fools can ask that wise men cannot answer."
--George Polya (1887-1985) |
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 7:21 pm |
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stanthony
One Smart Dog
Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 556
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
Weird Al Yankovic - The Saga Begins (Star Wars song on Don McLean - American Pie theme). Super fun!
_________________
- Druids do not fight with metal weapons! Sit here, and you over here. Put the elbows of your right arms on the table...
- Arm-pulling? Get me back me pan!
R.A.Salvatore The Cleric Quintet. Canticle |
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:07 pm |
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Toaster
Bread Alert
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 5475
Location: Sweden |
Funny, I listened to that songs just minutes ago!
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Tabbrowser Extensions
DictionarySearch |
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:46 am |
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Secret Agent Lawanda
The last thing you see...
Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 1041
Location: World of Darkness (LA) |
Right now? Three Days Grace - I Hate Everything About You
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-=Professional Secret Agent=-
Moderator of The Anime and Manga Fan Club |
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:36 pm |
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