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| Do you agree with the US Supreme Court's decision in Kelo vs. New London |
| Yes, it is acceptable for government to give one person's property to another person. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| No, a government's taking of property from one person to give to another person ought to be illegal. |
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100% |
[ 11 ] |
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| Total Votes : 11 |
Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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Rage and Vengence?.....What did I say that was full of rage and vengence?
quote:
By Roqua
Its funny that racism is the only problem I can think of that would go away if everyone ignored it.
Roqua, in your own words, what is racial discrimination and/or racism if you think they are two different things?
quote:
This also goes against any type of reality. In no situation would a small town near a large city not have multiple routes to that city.
That doesn't go against reality. I live in a small town, next to a large city, that only had one (1) way to get to that city until the GOVERNMENT built another bridge across the river so now we have two (2) ways to get there. All small towns are not created by urban sprawl.
Think about what would happen if your way of seeing things were law, everyone refused to sell or allow use of their private property, and that attitude proliferated to every single person.
Oh yeah, in my jury example, the mindset of the Arab is completely irrelevant. What matters is the effect that the monument has on the jury and that as an Arab he appears to be Muslim, and an outsider to the traditional American way of life, at first glance.
_________________
Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:17 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
"Roqua, in your own words, what is racial discrimination and/or racism if you think they are two different things?"
I think its kind of racist that since I can check the African_American box I can benefit from my color in many ways and instances. If I didn't get a job because of my color that would be discrimination. If my color didn't matter, that would be equality.
The same with sexism. I'm sexist. If I see a lady with a flat I'll stop and help, where as I'd drive past a guy. In my words, racism, like sexism, is just taking color or race into account for any reason. Racist/sexist discrimination would be taking color/sex into account and then explicitly discriminating against the person for that reason.
I feel really bad for Rice since she has a triple stereotype to put up with: being black, female, and an unlce tom.
"That doesn't go against reality. I live in a small town, next to a large city, that only had one (1) way to get to that city until the GOVERNMENT built another bridge across the river so now we have two (2) ways to get there. All small towns are not created by urban sprawl."
Maybe our idea of large city is very different, but thats besides the point. I personally think diplomacy and collaboration (win-win situations) are better than brute force. I'm sure people argued the same crap about "what would happen" when people were given free speech, women the right to vote, black's freedom, the right not to incriminate yourself, etc. But that doesn't change anything. Everyone has a price, and people only get beligerent when the goverment comes in and starts snapping orders and making people do what they want.
And when you get to the occasional, snippy, old lady that refuses to leave the house she raised her kids, watched her husband die, played with her grandkids, and plans on dying there herself, I say you leave her alone and replan the park or highway, or wait for her to die in her property. I don't think any domain is eminant, or any plan that much more complicated when force is replaced by diplomacy, fairness, and collaboration.
_________________
Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:26 am |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
Well, the definition of racism and discrimination that some people have now apparently put forth is someone "taking offense" to something, makes it racist or discriminatory. Also, "basic rights" now include someone not "being offended" or "made uncomfortable". Who cares about anything else but how someone "feels".
That proverbial Arab Muslim that sees the placard across the jury box is still going to get a fair trial, he's still going to have the rule of law observed in his case. But, he might "feel" uncomfortable that whitey actually still has relics of his cultural heritage in his government buildings. I dont see why we shouldnt go farther with it, why that Arab might be "uncomfortable" if there was a woman judge presiding over his case. He might question whether he can get a fair trial with her, being a woman and all. He might be "uncomfortable" if there are women in the jury box. We should question him and see if he's a fundamentalist, or if it just flat out offends him. If so, throw the judge off the bench and the women from the jury box. Its a "basic right" after all not to feel uncomfortable.
I'm sorry, I couldnt resist!
_________________
“Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain |
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:21 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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quote:
By Roqua
I think its kind of racist that since I can check the African_American box I can benefit from my color in many ways and instances.
Well Roqua, since you are African-American you can go to any hospital and you will get worse care than a white person who has the exact same ailment, makes the exact same amount of money, and pays the exact same amount for health care, but no one is going to take your race into account. What do you call that?
Sam, I understand what you are saying on the "taking offense" definition of discrimination. I personally think people have the right to say whatever they want, regardless of who they offend. However, we should understand that the offensive language they may use is often indicative of some deeper mindset that may lead to causing harm to whatever it is that they offend. If a person says, "***k the Constitution, I hate that dumb piece of $***," that person would offend many, but be within his right. Nonetheless that person could not blame anyone for resisting his appointment to the Supreme Court. He might not have meant what he said, but would you take that risk and make him someone who will be writing the official interpretion of the Constitution.
Racism/Discrimination is much more institutional than it appears at first glance. It doesn't necessarily require hatred or a conscious decision from the perpetrator. It is questionable whether the proverbial Arab Muslim would get a fair trial. This is not because of how he feel but rather it is because of how the jury feels. Giving what is essentially a government endorsement of religion, makes it a little less likely that a person of a different religion will get a fair trial.
The word is Sandra Day O'Connor is retiring. Where did she fall on abortion?
_________________
Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:22 pm |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
Well, its pretty clear that she is out. I dont know where she comes down on abortion (i think shes been on both sides of it thru her career before and after supreme court confirmation), it would be a matter of looking it up, which i cant do here at work atm. Theres no way to predict where she comes down on alot of things, since she's mostly the swing-vote, so you never know. This is a big deal, youre gonna see the most bitter fight ever over her seat, because she's seen as the balance between the libs and strict constructionists on the court.
And also, Rhenquist is a big question mark at this point. Officially, he's not supposed to be going anywhere, but God may have different plans for him. He's not lookin so well lately.
Now the fight begins, were going to see everything weve been discussing here front and center until we gag on it. Lets go, "Nuclear Option" ='.'=
_________________
“Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain |
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:42 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
quote:
Originally posted by Darrius Cole
quote:
By Roqua
I think its kind of racist that since I can check the African_American box I can benefit from my color in many ways and instances.
Well Roqua, since you are African-American you can go to any hospital and you will get worse care than a white person who has the exact same ailment, makes the exact same amount of money, and pays the exact same amount for health care, but no one is going to take your race into account. What do you call that?
Sam, I understand what you are saying on the "taking offense" definition of discrimination. I personally think people have the right to say whatever they want, regardless of who they offend. However, we should understand that the offensive language they may use is often indicative of some deeper mindset that may lead to causing harm to whatever it is that they offend. If a person says, "***k the Constitution, I hate that dumb piece of $***," that person would offend many, but be within his right. Nonetheless that person could not blame anyone for resisting his appointment to the Supreme Court. He might not have meant what he said, but would you take that risk and make him someone who will be writing the official interpretion of the Constitution.
Racism/Discrimination is much more institutional than it appears at first glance. It doesn't necessarily require hatred or a conscious decision from the perpetrator. It is questionable whether the proverbial Arab Muslim would get a fair trial. This is not because of how he feel but rather it is because of how the jury feels. Giving what is essentially a government endorsement of religion, makes it a little less likely that a person of a different religion will get a fair trial.
The word is Sandra Day O'Connor is retiring. Where did she fall on abortion?
"Racism/Discrimination is much more institutional than it appears at first glance."
I agree, when I lived in Boise I was treated like a king. People went out of their way to be nice to me. When I applied at a job I was qualified for, I would get it, because I was one of Boise's non-existant "black" community.
"Well Roqua, since you are African-American..." Well, my ethnicity isn't African-American. I'm half Cape Verdian (a black, portugese mix). My decendents are as African as anyone elses, seeing that life started in Africa. But seeing that my mother was born in Africa, maybe I am African American. But not legally for that reason since she is Sicilian and is from Tunis.
Why are non-blacks from Africa not African-Americans? Why is African-American a box Haitians and Dominicans can check? But Puerto Ricans (who range in color from milky white to black as midnight) are always Puerto Ricans?
Why are Indians (from India), who come from the continent of Asia, not Asian? Why are the Arabs that come from the many Arab countries of Africa not African?
Why can Italians and Irish, who have a large history of being discriminated against in Boston, not considered minorities? Or enough of a minority to get crap for free?
Why are Italians not latino? Can you be more latin than Italian?
"you can go to any hospital and you will get worse care than a white person who has the exact same ailment, makes the exact same amount of money, and pays the exact same amount for health care, but no one is going to take your race into account. What do you call that?"
Oh yeah? I say BS? If you are going on demographic info and saying my service is worse because my hospitals are in ghettos, I say the residents of the ghetto, white , black, oriental, arab, spanish, whatever, get the same crap treatment. So now we are not talking about race, but class. So you are saying the poor class has in worse? Thats breaking and mind bogaling news.
All my life I was told in school and by various outside sources that I deserve things for free, and if I didn't do good it wasn't my fault. I thank God my parents are crazy immigrants that saw clearly the social stratisfication oppertunities in the US and forced me not to fall in with that victim nonsense. All my friends have the poor mindset. They see themselves as poor, will always be poor, and don't even try to help their situation.
I say you are blaming a complicated issue on one of many, many aspects that contribute to it. I can't stand people with the whole, "lets be extra nice to the little half-negro boy, poor thing, he needs the white man's help to do anything." I dont need anyones help. But, if society says I should be picked over other qualified canidates because my skin isn't white, I say society is stupid and racist, but I'll use it to my advantage. And everyone who doesnt, everyone who wallows in self pity saying they're victims, waiting for a hand-out, I say that is the p[roduct of people like you. They had less of a chance. With all the hip and open minded whitey's saying they have it so bad, and what victims they are, and throwing how racist society is and how futile any chance of self improvment will be just perpetuates the poor, victim mindset.
I would much rather have society be hostile and blame minorties for this and that and being poor and whatever, because I think that would light a fire under the asses of the minority community and get them up and fighting back. Instead of wallowing in self-pity.
_________________
Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:37 pm |
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Val
Risen From Ashes
Joined: 18 Feb 2002
Posts: 14724
Location: Utah, USA |
quote:
Originally posted by Darrius Cole
The word is Sandra Day O'Connor is retiring. Where did she fall on abortion?
As Sam pointed out, she was the swing vote on many occations. As she was on the Planned Parenthood vs. Casey case that upheld Roe vs. Wade. If I remember right, she wrote the court's decision on it.
_________________
Freeeeeeedom! Thank heavens it's summer!
What do I have to show for my hard work? A piece of paper! Wee!
=Guardian, Moderator, UltimaDot Newshound=  |
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:58 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
I read a vote count on abortion issues and it seems the heart of pro-life.pro-choice wouldnt be effected by a pro-life justice. The core issues were voted on 6-3. She impacted other minor and much more debatable issues with votes of 5-4, like the planned parenthood thing.
But it would take two pro-life justices to impact the core legalities of abortion. And being conservative does or liberal doesn't seem to matter on the issue, as I know pretty of pretty harcore liberals who are pro-life for religous reasons. I know conservatives that are pro-choice (in fact every conservative I know is pro-choice).
_________________
Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:48 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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quote:
By Roqua
quote:
By Darrius Cole
Well Roqua, since you are African-American you can go to any hospital and you will get worse care than a white person who has the exact same ailment, makes the exact same amount of money, and pays the exact same amount for health care, but no one is going to take your race into account. What do you call that?
Oh yeah? I say BS? If you are going on demographic info and saying my service is worse because my hospitals are in ghettos, I say the residents of the ghetto, white , black, oriental, arab, spanish, whatever, get the same crap treatment. So now we are not talking about race, but class. So you are saying the poor class has in worse? Thats breaking and mind bogaling news.
No, I'm not saying the poor class has it worse, they do have it worse, but that not what I was saying. I'm saying that after you adjust for differences in income, education, insurance, different hospitals, etc. African-Americans still get worse health care than whites. I'll say it another way. Same income, same education, same insurance, same hospital, whites get better treatment. That's is a statistical reality. You may feel its BS, but it's not. Hospitals are conducting workshops in attempts to correct it.
quote:
By Roqua
All my life I was told....
I say you are blaming a complicated issue on one of many, many aspects that contribute to it....
I would much rather have society be hostile....
I don't know where any of this came from. I didn't say anything along these lines, or blame anything or anyone, neither did I say minorities were or should be receiving any pity. All that stuff came from inside you. So perhaps you should examine how you feel about minorities. I simply pointed out that there are disparities based on ethnicity in the US still. It would be wrong to say it is as bad as it was 30-40 years ago but it would also be wrong to say that now it has all been corrected.
Oh yeah, I doubt that you would really prefer it if US society was still hostile toward minorities. When it was, it was so bad that most White Americans couldn't stand it.
I've given that enough bandwith so....
_________________
Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
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Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:21 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Ah, it's so refreshing to see people taking action instead of merely shaking their heads and lamenting it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8406056/
I hope it goes through. Poetic justice is my favorite kind.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:38 pm |
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Darrius Cole
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 406
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I finally find an issue that's engrossing enough for me to write my congressman, and I find out that it doesn't apply in my state.
I guess the government can't take my house so that Donald Trump can build a parking lot over it.
_________________
Always with you what can not be done. Hear you nothing that I say? - Master Yoda
Only the powerful are free. - Darrius Cole |
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Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:06 pm |
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