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Rawis
Gorthaur
Joined: 01 Apr 2002
Posts: 1861
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Well, what i heard the eye can notice like 50 fps or more! |
Fri May 03, 2002 3:01 pm |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
I heard 30
(with little differences between people) |
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Fri May 03, 2002 3:02 pm |
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Rawis
Gorthaur
Joined: 01 Apr 2002
Posts: 1861
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Well, then the Morrowind engine just suck. Or Bethsoft does, they should not make a requiering engine like this! Graphic is not all, but you should be able to play it smooth! Don't you think? |
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Fri May 03, 2002 3:03 pm |
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Karhgath
Guest
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Nope. I think the exact number(but it changes for everyone, some are more sensitive) is around 24-30 _constant_(see below) framerate. Movies are projected at that speed for example. However, you can 'feel', as in choppiness, up to around 50-60, but you can't actually really see it in games.
However, here we're talking about constant framerate like a movie. A game is much different. That why around 60 is ok, because it isn't constant and thus there is larger gaps between frames, but at 60, you can't even see/feel them.
Like I said, remove AA and bump up your resolution to 1600 and see if there's any speed difference.
Since you seem to be a big FPS fan(sorry if I'm wrong, hehe), you might be use to higher framerates when you play and be a lot more sensitive, but frankly, 30 is personally just ok for me. 60 is ideal tho, but I can play at 30. heck, I've played(suffered?? hehe) 2D games at 22 fps(Arcanum) and it was still playable(but a little slow and choppy in response time, hehe), so I'm sure 30fps in Morrowind will be more than enough, hehe.
You might just be more sensitive to fps, so I suggest removing features(like AA) to try to find your ideal fps/features setting. |
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Fri May 03, 2002 3:10 pm |
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Rawis
Gorthaur
Joined: 01 Apr 2002
Posts: 1861
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I both a FPS and RPG fan, but I almoust only play RPG games now, becouse there is no good FPS games out there at the moment. But i would say i play RPG games like 5 hours a day... |
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Fri May 03, 2002 3:13 pm |
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eightman2k
Village Dweller
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 7
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A few points....
AA is off
Deus ex never ran this slow...and I ran on a slower system.
If the reason that the framerate is low is because of all the background calculations like AI, etc.... Then why does the framerate jump indoors?
MS flight simulator runs smoother then MW...do you really think MW is doing more calculations then a flight simulator?
Never once did I say I wanted to boast about 300FPS....
It is obvious that you cannot compare a FPS to an RPG, but how about half the framerate of a UT2002....40fps?
The accepted rate for "smoothness" is between 30-60FPS. Anything above 60FPS the eye can't see, anything below 30 produces choppiness. I am pretty sure TV is 30FPS.
Here is my overall point and one that no one can dispute...
It is ridiculous and unacceptable that $2000 worth of top of the line computer hardware, including the latest graphics card, the latest memory, the latest chipset and the latest processor, cannot consistently give 30+ FPS in a game released today at 1024x768x32 with full graphics and game options on.
_________________
Boy struts on the main street
He's dressed for effect
But his eyes reveal he's real erect
He's all alone, don't ask me why
This kid from Brooklyn cries
---Pete Townshend
Last edited by eightman2k on Fri May 03, 2002 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fri May 03, 2002 3:13 pm |
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Rawis
Gorthaur
Joined: 01 Apr 2002
Posts: 1861
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Yes, i think your right!
I also played MS Flight Simulator 2002, and i got some nice frame rates! And, that game IS advanced... all terrain, light, details, houses, trees, and all. |
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Fri May 03, 2002 3:18 pm |
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eightman2k
Village Dweller
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 7
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I am by no means a FPS fanboy. I am currently playing the following, Earth and Beyond, Dungeon Siege, Medal of Honor AA, and MW. On my HD (unretired games) Starlancer, BG1&2, Freespace 2, Europa Universalis, Max Payne, Starcraft, Darklands, Wasteland, Fallout2, Icewind Dale.
_________________
Boy struts on the main street
He's dressed for effect
But his eyes reveal he's real erect
He's all alone, don't ask me why
This kid from Brooklyn cries
---Pete Townshend |
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Fri May 03, 2002 3:19 pm |
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Mereel77
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 44
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Eightman, your framerates probably jump indoors because there are less NPC's and it is generally a smaller area indoors. From the video I saw anyway, it looks like the indoor and outdoors are seperate areas that load up when you pass through.
For this framerate talk, isn't it really a waste to have framerates higher than your monitor's refresh rate? So anything about 75 or 85 is useless. |
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Fri May 03, 2002 3:22 pm |
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MamoVaka
Guest
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I posted about this too
I have
xp1900+
513 DDR
SB AUDIGY GAMER
Geforce 4 ti4600
A ton of TOP OF THE LINE HARDWARE
Get a 3dmark 2001 score of 9200 *wouldbe be 10k if I get 2100*
I run the game max. My framerates go as low as 9 in a town with the details all the way up. That is TOTAL CRAP. How can we enjoy a game when it is chop city? and WHY should the people who PAY for top end hardware have a problem here? WHY? |
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Fri May 03, 2002 3:24 pm |
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eightman2k
Village Dweller
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 7
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quote:
Originally posted by Mereel
Eightman, your framerates probably jump indoors because there are less NPC's and it is generally a smaller area indoors. From the video I saw anyway, it looks like the indoor and outdoors are seperate areas that load up when you pass through.
For this framerate talk, isn't it really a waste to have framerates higher than your monitor's refresh rate? So anything about 75 or 85 is useless.
Mereel,
I was just responding to someone who said that the framerates were low because of the background AI calculations. And I agree framerates above 60 are useless.
_________________
Boy struts on the main street
He's dressed for effect
But his eyes reveal he's real erect
He's all alone, don't ask me why
This kid from Brooklyn cries
---Pete Townshend |
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Fri May 03, 2002 3:26 pm |
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stormshadow666
Village Dweller
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 1
Location: Somewhere in New Jersey |
Im not having any problems with my MW. Here are my specs.
Athlon XP 1800+
512 PC2100 Micron
Geforce 4 TI 4600
SB Live! Value
Asus A7V-266
WD 40 GB 7200 RPM
Im running at 1280x960 with AA at Quin 4x. Full shadows are on. Full view distance on. Pretty much everything is maxed. I cant run 1600x1200 not because it doesnt run but because I can't read the damn text at that res. With all these settings, im running smooth even in the starting town. And I dont even have my video card overclocked yet. Just my two cents. Have fun alll and good luck.
_________________
"Peter, we need to talk about your TPS reports." - Office Space- |
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Fri May 03, 2002 3:28 pm |
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MamoVaka
Guest
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Do me a favor and go to the config file and enable your FPS, you tell me what sort of FPS you get IN TOWN with your detail settings. Some people just dont think 9 fps sucks. They consider it playable, Thanks |
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Fri May 03, 2002 3:37 pm |
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Karhgath
Guest
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I said AI calculation is half the problem, the other half is the engine, compared to 90% engine, 10% rest in FPS. It is certain that you get better framerate inside, there is MUCH less to render, so the 50% of the engine part in the speed is very low, but the AI is probably still the same. However, even if you get no graphics, there is still the AI and all to compute. So, outdoor, that why you see even more of a slowdown.
For a completely wrong comparison(but might help to understand) is the following:
The game without anything runs at 200fps (I said it was wrong =)
Lets say Ai and stuff takes around 100fps
Graphics all at Maximum with AA takes 120fps outdoor/80 indoor
Graphics all at the max, no AA takes 80fps/40 indoor
etc...
However, in games lile UT2002, you have the following
Game runs at 200fps
AI and stuff takes 20fps
Graph at max takes with AA 120fps
Graph at max without AA 80fps
and so on...
so it is 100% certain that you will get lower fps in Morrowind... however, the above is very flawed, but it still gives you a good idea of what happens, but it is far from being as simple as that, lol.
And, in a game like morrowind... I'm pretty sure the AI and stuff takes a lot more than I think it does. I haven't programmed Morrowind, so I can't tell, but I'm sure it takes a lot more than, lets say, UT2002, lol.
Heck, my friend plays Morrowind on a Celeron 600 with a TNT2 and gets 30-40fps... ok, he's in 800 with no features, but still... it's playable =)
Just remove some options.
It' just a different beast. Sure, it might be fun to have a constant 60fps, but I wasn't expecting that from Morrowind.
And, when you compare it to, let say, Deus Ex, it is once again flawed. The engine is a FPS engine, even if the game isn't. It is optimized for the specificty of the engine. And frankly, the Unreal engine isn't very taxing with modern computers, lol.
Also, I won't go into specifics, but engines are made differently for different needs between games. Engines like Quake 3 Arena uses fast BSP trees... it's fast, but not that beatiful and pretty static... but it's fast as hell =) However, large lushfull outside environement in Quake 3 Arena are nearly impossible. Totally the opposite to, say, Serious Sam, where it shine outdoor with unlimited visibility, you can see all levels from far away when you are high up. And morrowind is another beast too. Each uses different technologies, because each have different needs, uses, advantages, disadvantages, etc.
And, one final point tho... This one goes against Morrowind in some way tho: it uses Direct3D. There are a lot of overhead in there, and it will always be slower than equivalent OpenGL. Thats why all FPS have an OpenGL option. However, with the size and difficulties of RPGs, it is hard to devote a lot of time on OpenGL when Direct3D is 'easier' to program and does a lot of automatic stuff. Except for FPS, most games today are built with Direct3D in mind because it's 'easier' to program... well, so they say. I personally find OpenGL easer, but oh well... when you already have all other DirectX component, why not go with Direct3D and make everything works together? hehe.
Ok, I'm outta here to check if my store have Morrowind =) |
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Fri May 03, 2002 3:39 pm |
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eightman2k
Village Dweller
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 7
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Khar,
You're missing the point,
Options should not have to be turned off.
I'll repeat what i said before....
It is ridiculous and unacceptable that $2000 worth of top of the line computer hardware, including the latest graphics card, the latest memory, the latest chipset and the latest processor, cannot consistently give 30+ FPS in a game released today at 1024x768x32 with full graphics and game options on.
_________________
Boy struts on the main street
He's dressed for effect
But his eyes reveal he's real erect
He's all alone, don't ask me why
This kid from Brooklyn cries
---Pete Townshend |
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Fri May 03, 2002 3:53 pm |
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