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RPG Frog
Blade Runner
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix |
| Console Wars - PS3 vs Xbox 360 |
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The Console Wars have begun. The media, as expected, is squarely on Sony's side. I think the X360 is more flexible, easier to program for, and has nothing to worry about with the PS3.
Gamespot Playstation 3 vs Xbox 360...
http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-15016-1985-x-x-x
If you look at these architecture's closely you will see that even though they are quite different, games are not going to look much different. Personally, I think it will come down to ease of development(definitely Microsoft's advantage with Direct-X 10 and XNA) and the GPUs. Like many, I see the "Cell" as being another "Emotion Engine". That's what many surmise with idiocy like this statement from the media...
quote:
The machine, due to reach the shops next year, runs on a computer brain 35 times more powerful than anything now on the market.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&targetRule=10&xml=/connected/2005/05/25/ecncons25.xm
Or futurist psychobabble such as this…
quote:
and in terms of processing is "one percent as powerful as a human brain".
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050522/323/fjiiv.html
I'd do your research before believing Sony's hype about the Cell!
The custom ATI GPU in the Xbox 360 is wicked because it includes 10mb of embedded DRAM. This allows for "free" 4X AA in 1280x720 & 1080i resolutions for ALL games. No CPU performance hit from this.
Also notice that the X360's three cores handle 6 threads. this is close to Sony's Cell which has 8 SPEs(not the same as cores) that can handle 7 threads. The fact that the cell can crunch double the Tflops does not make the PS3 twice as powerful. I think in many ways the architecture of the X360 is better. As do many neutral tech-sites.
The RAM in X360 is unified 512mb
The RAM in PS3 is split 256mb for GPU and 256mb for CPU.
What happened to the Cell running at 4.6 ghz? I find it really amusing that they dialed the die down to 3.2 ghz just like the X360’s cpu. Both chips 8SPE Cell and 3Core X360 were developed by IBM.
Here is just a sampling of technical articles that indicate that the X360 CPU will definitely not be crushed by the Cell for gaming and that X360's custom ATI GPU will be hard to top by Sony & Nvidia. But don't take my word for it. Listen to the real hardware pros...
ArsTechnica X360 CPU detailed articles...
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-1.ars
ExtremeTech - Custom ATI GPU for X360
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1818127,00.asp
Hard OCP - Custom ATI GPU for X360
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NzcxLDE=
My prediction for this generations Console Wars...
Xbox 360 = Sega Genesis.
Sony PS3 = SNES.
Microsoft's 6 month lead gives them the boost they need to transform from from being a Dreamcast to a Sega Genesis. I really think Microsoft is going to eat a ton of the market-share and be much closer to Sony.
Nintendo is now a niche player. They do not care about 3rd party support. And people who purchase a Revolution will also buy a PS3 or Xbox 360.
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Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard |
Fri May 27, 2005 3:04 pm |
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RPG Frog
Blade Runner
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix |
Here is another ArsTechnica article about the Xenon CPU.
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-2.ars?67820
Basically it shows that the Cell is a 1core processor and the Xenon is a 3core processor.
Xenon has 1mb L2 cache. PS3 has a 512km L2 cache.
Xenon can handle 6 threads. PS3 can handle 7 threads.
Xenon has extra 10mb EDRAM for 4X AA. PS3 has none.
PS3 is not an 8-core processor like Sony and it's fanboys want you to believe.
Cell is not the Xenon-killer preached just 2 months ago by Sony and it's followers. What happened to the mighty 4.6ghz cell? Only someone with a non-technical background would believe Sony's claims that PS3 is twice as powerful as X360.
Xenon CPU
Also, it looks as though Sony is going to make the foolish mistake of not including a Hard-drive with the PS3. Every X360 comes with a removeable 20gb HD. You can later upgrade to a larger drive if needed. This is important because ALL X360 games can support HD caching. When a drive is not standard, programmers will not waste their time using the HD for caching.
http://engadget.com/entry/1234000333045371/
quote:
t’s probably a little early to be freaking out over what might and might not be bundled with a game console that won’t be launched for another year or so, but Sony Computer Entertainment chief technology officer Masayuki Chatani indicated in a recent interview with a Japanese magazine that Sony may be leaning away from bundling a hard drive attachment with the PlayStation 3 and instead might sell them separately so that users could buy a larger (or smaller) drive if they wanted to. Not including a hard drive would certainly help keep the MSRP down, but it also might frustrate gamers who feel like they’re getting nickel and dimed with all the extra stuff they have to buy.
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Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard |
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Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:29 pm |
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RPG Frog
Blade Runner
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix |
Sounds like PS3 is going to use network attached storage. Very stupid, as maybe 10% of the userbase will have broadband and thus would not be able to use it.
Why not include an HD with every system ? Without that, developers will not be able to support caching like the Xbox 360.
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/0609/kaigai187.htm
quote:
As for PLAYSTATION 3, although they are that much specifications, the local HDD has not been recorded with default. Why being?
< Ken Kutaragi> The HDD does not place with default. When you say, why, however much placing, it is not enough, because. Next already not to be wrong network drive. (Storage) being a Cell server, it can access from anywhere via network. At in your own house and, being wherever, logical, (the same network drive) are visible at the house of the friend. Such world.
With saying, there are times which are not attached to either the substance and taking the HDD say. Therefore, this time, the 80GB or the 120GB enters to be able to insert 2.5 inch HDD. It is not enough at all however, with, because it is necessary to send the OS as a single unit. With network drive, this way (the server with respect to network) the tera- byte (storage) being attached, calling calling and from the る, when taking the certification of the computer as a single unit, the drive which the OS runs becomes necessary.
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Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard |
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Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:36 pm |
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Myrthos
Spoiler of All Fun
Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 1926
Location: Holland |
I have a hard time deriving something sensible from that. In any case if they use a network storage then I can only assume that it is in a local network (it would make no sense otherwise) and in that case it can either be directly connected to the console or on the local network. And in a local network everybody has broadband.
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Kewl quotes:
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...you won't have to unbookmark this site, we'll unbookmark you. - Val
Reports Myrthos for making me scared and humbled at the mere sight of his name - kayla |
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Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:01 pm |
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Arma
Mysterious Lady
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 1230
Location: in the middle of hell |
I admit that so far I am on the 360°'s side, rather than Sony, and I do believe that this time the XBox can truimph over the Playstation. Don't ask me why exacttly, but I just have this feeling. |
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Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:06 am |
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roorooroo
Village Dweller
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 21
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As long as there are some great games, especially RPGs released for the new systems then I'll be happy with both! |
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Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:35 am |
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RPG Frog
Blade Runner
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix |
Here is another in-depth technical article on the ATI's custom GPU codenamed Xenos for Xbox 360...
http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/
_________________
Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard |
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Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:16 pm |
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RPG Frog
Blade Runner
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix |
quote:
This is the ultimate aesthetic. The number of SPEs we equip to the Cell and how many we will actually use are two different things. I wanted to adopt the idea of 'redundancy' to the development of semiconductors. Logic LSIs, excluding memory chips, are considered defective and unshippable if just one transistor or line doesn't work. If the Cell's final chip dimension is about 200 square millimeters, making one without any defects is extremely difficult. We can't reach our anticipated production yield with that. Of course, we'll take various measures to lower the defect density, but that won't be enough. But by considering one or two SPEs as a redundancy from the very beginning, we can still use a Cell chip even if it's partially defective.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/20/news_6127799.html
This knocks the 1-core Cell down to 6 threads. (8 SPEs - 1 for redundancy. 1 or 2 for defects).
Three-core Xenon can handle 6 threads.
X360 will have no problem competing with PS3!
_________________
Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard |
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:05 pm |
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RPG Frog
Blade Runner
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix |
Microsoft's Xbox 360, Sony's PS3 - A Hardware Discussion
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2453
Great article. Basically the same stuff stated in the other technical articles I've posted. PS3 is not more powerful than X360. This will be a REALLY good console-war!
Xbox360 = Sega Genesis(darkhorse)
PS3 = SNES(market-leader, more popular)
I can't wait to see what ArsTechnica or Beyond3D has to say about the actual RSX GPU of the PS3. Should be some tech articles for it soon, as the G70(what it's based off of) has info available.
The CPU & GPU architectures of these 2 systems is very different. It's interesting that even Microsoft admits that early next-gen games will only be 1 or 2 thread games. We will not see the insane stuff for PS3/X360 till 3 years from now!
_________________
Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard |
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Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:21 pm |
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RPG Frog
Blade Runner
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix |
Here is another great tech article that really rips into Microsoft and Sony. Basically, it shows that while the architectures are vastly differnt, they should have comparable performance. Devs think X360 is easier to code for. None of them seem to think multi-threaded games will really kick in until 3-5 years from now.
Microsoft's Xbox 360 & Sony's PlayStation 3 - Examples of Poor CPU Performance
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2461
Like I figured, 1080p will NOT be supported by all PS3 games.
quote:
Despite strong performance and support for 1080p, a large number of developers are targeting 720p for their PS3 titles and won't support 1080p. Those that are simply porting current-generation games over will have no problems running at 1080p, but anyone working on a truly next-generation title won't have the fill rate necessary to render at 1080p.
_________________
Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard |
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Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:15 pm |
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