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Nicolas
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 32
Location: Odai Plateau |
quote:
Originally posted by Ragnar
Let me ask a question...If the world of Gothic does not use gunpowder, just how would they launch projectiles out of those cannons on the galleon and others strewn about the Gothic world?
Did you see any cannon shoot ?
I'm refering to handguns... for the NPC's... something that is odd in a medieval world which would turn all the weapons in Gothic to nothing.
It's just... as resemblance
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"May you find me worthy of your attention" |
Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:21 pm |
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Iron Man
Dazed and Confused
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 773
Location: Location Location |
quote:
Originally posted by Ragnar
Let me ask a question...If the world of Gothic does not use gunpowder, just how would they launch projectiles out of those cannons on the galleon and others strewn about the Gothic world?
They don't shoot. They are just there to scare the locals, the cannon balls just to make it look more real. 
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This box secretly turns into a picture and laughs at YOU personally when you're not looking. |
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Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:19 pm |
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Chekote
Where’s my Banana?!?!
Joined: 08 Mar 2002
Posts: 1540
Location: Dont know, looks kind of green |
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolas
Not anything (in my opinion) is a good thing... just imagine if you add gunpowder in Gothic...
Now that would be cool 
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IMHO my opinion is humble |
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Thu Jul 10, 2003 10:30 pm |
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konny666
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 219
Location: Babylon 6 |
Sorry for late reply but just noticed this:
"P.S. Psssst... Maylander, NWN isn't a part of the BG series, they barely use the same RP-system. Keep trying though... BTW, ever heard of a one-trick-pony?"
Yes, correct. The BG and NWN are both very different games and both part of different series:
- Different ruleset. BG = AD&D 2nd edition (created by TSR Inc. in late 80's/early 90's)
NWN = D&D 3rd edition (created by WoTC Inc. in 2000, they bought out TSR 3 years ago, and made some MAJOR changes)
In the world of RPGs such differences are huge and require one to learn new character creation techniques, game mechanics, buy new books, etc.
- Different engine. BG = Infinity engine, NWN = Aurora engine
- Different storyline. BG = about some guy who's the son/daughter of Bhaal or something, NWN = open-ended MMORPG with optional single-player campaign and lots of customization, ability to create own scenarios, be a DM, run servers, blahblahblah
MMmmm sounds like 2 completely different and separate games/game series to me.
The fact that they take place in the same world is a bit irrelevant. Is Star Trek Elite Force 2 in the same SERIES as Star Trek Armada? Is Star Wars Galaxies in the same SERIES as Jedi Knight 2? Uhh... no.
They're both part of the same franchise. That's different from being part of the same series.
Credentials check: I own NWN, BG2, BG1. I also own about 10 books of the AD&D 2nd edition pen and paper series as well as other PnP series such as GURPS, Ars Magica, etc. |
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Thu Jul 10, 2003 11:19 pm |
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Ragnar
High Emperor
Joined: 30 Oct 2001
Posts: 486
Location: NJ USA |
I am well aware of the fact that the cannons do not shoot in the game…and I also am aware that they are there to enhance the game world. But just because they are not functional does not mean that the world of Gothic is devoid of gunpowder/black powder. There could very likely come a time when GP/BP is used in the game and it would not be off base either. Remember, the Chinese invented BP around 200 to 300BC and cannons were soon to follow. It took another 1000 years for firearms to develop. If we take that and apply it to the world of Gothic 3 or 4, we could see Paladins manning cannons at city walls trying to keep the Orks at bay while our hero and everyone else runs around doing battle with blades, bows and other non-powdered based weapons. As for the argument that it would require recoding this or recoding that…That's what PB does! Above all else…they are a software company. They write code just like the company I work for. If we stopped changing are code to enhance our product there would be no incentive to move to the next rev level. The same applies to PB, if they stopped changing their code (whether scripting or graphical) to enhance the game, there would be little incentive to by the next sequel in the Gothic series.
P.S. Please excuse my rambling. I know we were talking shields but the game does have to evolve and to me it’s the Gothic world and storyline that will keep me coming back…Just like a good.
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"That one hurt..."
Sylvio
Last edited by Ragnar on Fri Jul 11, 2003 9:51 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Fri Jul 11, 2003 4:55 pm |
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konny666
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 219
Location: Babylon 6 |
Oh yeah, I have something to say on the cannons/gunpowder issue too.
In the real world, if I'm not mistaken, it took about 200 years or so for gunpowder to become sufficiently advanced to be readily used on the battlefield and make "swords and shields (and armor)" obsolete.
Around the time that cannons were used on ships, it was still common practise for soldiers to use swords when boarding enemy vessels. Guns at that time were very primitive, and a good plate cuirass could keep the "bullets" away. In fact, the most advanced form of plate armor was invently precise to block the primitive gunpowder ammunition of the late 1400's/early 1500's.
So its quite possible for Piranha to incorporate some sort of primitive firearms in the game, they would be similar to Bows/XBows but do a bit more damage but take a HELL of a longer time to reload.
It's also possible those cannons are just to look cool and there's no gunpowder whatsoever in the game.  |
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Fri Jul 11, 2003 6:55 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
Swords were rendered obsolete when you got automatic weapons, not before. Even the soldiers in the Civil War had swords. Also, Gothic takes place in a medieval setting, if you throw in handguns, you would have to change the setting a bit. Handguns didn't appear until late medieval times, which were a bit different than Gothic(cannons existed though), but hey, this is fantasy, so you could have laser guns and it wouldn't be a problem really!
And about NWN and BG, the reason why I say it's the same series, is because Black Isle said so long ago. They wanted to create something new, yet keep the old feeling of BG.
Gothic III will run on a different graphics engine than Gothic II, and it will be placed somewhere G1-2 has never seen, only heard of. The ONLY thing similar as we know it is the main character.
Might and Magic is an even better example. When going from 5 to 6 they changed EVERYTHING. Graphics engine, people, setting, story, a lot more than BG -> NWN, but it is still the same series. The MM change went well, but when they tried to do the same with 8->9 they messed up.. big time.
If you check out some of the old FAQs of NWN, you'll soon find out that every single question compares the game to BG, what differences were made between the games and so on. Like I've already said, the producers claimed they "evolved" BG into NWN, and NWN is supposed to be better. Personally I feel it's too much graphics compared to story and gameplay.
Regarding the armour-sets. Go buy Morrowind. The armour-sets is one of the keys to the "Gothic-feeling", it serves as your identity in the game, and gives it a high replay value because you want to really try the different ways of playing the game. Being able to look the same every time would turn it into a game like Morrowind or Diablo II. |
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Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:39 am |
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Daedalus
High Emperor
Joined: 04 Jan 2002
Posts: 2516
Location: Estonia |
well first after Gothic 1 end i waited so long for Morrowind they told it will be better than gothic 1 etc and the graphics and all gameplay and all . After it was released and i buyed it i installed it and saw that it got indeed damn beautiful graphics but later i saw that it didnt have no voice acting no NPCs life they just stand there etc and even no god damn story. Ppl dont look anymore much how the graphics are but how the game will take u in . If i buyed today Quest For Glory 5 and i never played it before then i know i would like that game much more than morrowind cos it had a great story and its kinda same like gothic dont know what gives that feeling |
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Sat Jul 12, 2003 3:03 pm |
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konny666
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 219
Location: Babylon 6 |
I remember when the first Quest for Glory came out (more than 10 yrs ago) and my friends were going crazy over it on their Amigas.
About BG vs. NWN (again!), the crazy marketing people at Bioware can say what they want but in IMO there is no way you can compare a single-player story-driven CRPG with a MMORPG like NWN ... which it essentially is, people compare NWN to games like EverQuest and Ultima Online, not to single-player games like Morrowind or Fallout.
Also about graphics, I agree that its not the #1 concern for CRPGs these days. People who are solely interested in graphics play first-person shooters. |
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Sat Jul 12, 2003 6:34 pm |
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Maylander
High Emperor
Joined: 22 Mar 2002
Posts: 1712
Location: Norway |
MMORPG? So that's what it is today, huh? Well sorry to say this, but it was planned to be a SP RPG with a multiplayer possibility. They "evolved" the way you can play BG2 on the net as well, and this actually went well. Bravo.
If anybody had told me, that it was a MMORPG, I would never have bought it. If you look it up on the net, on pages like tothegame.com, you'll soon find out that goes under the category "RPG", not "MMORPG" like Everquest.
I totally agree regarding Morrowind. The game has no soul. I'd have to get paid to go through that game again.. |
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Sat Jul 12, 2003 6:44 pm |
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Shmaugus
High Emperor
Joined: 20 May 2003
Posts: 493
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ok thats it quit the damn bickering about morrowwind and baldur's gate 1 and 2, as well as never winter nights... this is a gothic forum, who gives a damn about those games and more specifically this is a thread about shields not being in gothic 1 and 2 NOT about how shitty mw is (even though it really sucked) or about maylander always thinking that he/she or what everer the hell it is is right about nwn being the 3rd bg which it obiously wasnt now i say back to why shields should be in gothic 3 |
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Sat Jul 19, 2003 6:22 am |
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Jaz
Late Night Spook
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 9708
Location: RPGDot |
Shmaugus: you're correct about returning to topic. Your choice of words, however, is everything but correct. Please mind your language or receive a warning next time.
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Jaz |
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Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:27 am |
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Daedalus
High Emperor
Joined: 04 Jan 2002
Posts: 2516
Location: Estonia |
ok simple as that then NO SHIELS  |
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Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:56 am |
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Ragnar
High Emperor
Joined: 30 Oct 2001
Posts: 486
Location: NJ USA |
I disagree and I really have not seen a convincing argument as to why there should be no shield included in an upcoming release of Gothic. The only thing I have read about no shields in the game is that some people don’t want them…fine…don’t use them. But just because you don’t like shield does not give you the right to deprive others of their right to use them, Of course, if Dev makes the decision not to include shields in G3 or 4 then this whole discussion is moot. But I think discussions like this and the one going on about MODs are crucial to the Dev team. It gives them an idea of what people liked and disliked about the game and what features might be worth developing in the future to keep the game alive and growing. Not to mention the fact that if gamers see that the Dev team listens to their comments and incorporates the best ideas into upcoming releases, their client base can only do one thing…grow.
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"That one hurt..."
Sylvio |
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Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:45 pm |
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Gor Na Katarn
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 36
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Here's an idea. If you want handguns and such, there could a quest, where you meet some guy that everyone says is a crazy inventor, and he comes up with the idea to concocte a new weapon (the handgun) but you must supply him with LOTS OF ITEMS, and fund him like EVERYDAY with enough money to make your purse cry. Finally, he'll finish it, but you have to learn how to forge the bullets, and it takes time to reload.
Shields don't upset the gameplay mechanics, infact, it could be almost purely aethetic, so instead of the Hero doing a little sword block, he'll block with the shield. If you want to add a few more bells and whistles to it, you could also just let it block some arrows, but need excellent timing, and maybe a little fire and magic. Also, to solve the fact of buying shields, they either come with the armor set, and only come off your back depending on the weapon (1 handed weapon).
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-Crim |
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Sat Jul 19, 2003 5:03 pm |
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