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Guest
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So true. The attitude of most kiddies today is, like, how can I cheat the system to get ahead. It's roleplaying, d00dz. |
Sun May 12, 2002 3:15 pm |
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Juz'la
Guest
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Unfortunately I believe alot of online titles have redefined the genre (and not for the better) in that they have created player vs. environment games that pit you against them. People are in constant competition to level up get better gear etc. and it turns into a contest.
When a single player RPG comes along (that the developer/publisher doesnt have to maintain you for on a monthly basis) people approach it with the same mentality as above. Problem is this game is yours. Everything you do and how you do it is defined by you.. not the developer/publisher. So ultimately you can slay those mobs or practice on a wall with your fireball or a mixture of both. The only person you can "cheat" is yourself.
Have fun and play what has got to be one of the best RPG's to come along in a long time.
Juz'la Ironstar . Dark Elf or the Great House Redoran |
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Sun May 12, 2002 5:16 pm |
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Guest
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Didn't even read your post or the replies. Don't need to. This is the best leveling system ever devised. Ever. My wife doesn't get into killing shit, but she loves to roleplay. This game allows her to play the way she wants and still enjoy the game and still level. She can pick flowers all day if she wants and still have fun. I like to kill, maim, and destroy things, but that isn't her. I'm thrilled that she can actually enjoy this game and play in her little fantasy world the way SHE wants to. I swear, she'll spend the next 3 years picking rare plants and re-decorating her house. And that's a great thing in terms of the genre. 'Nuff said. |
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Sun May 12, 2002 5:30 pm |
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Guest
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IF you dont like the fact that you can level by just casting over and over in a empty room then DONT just pretend that you can level that way its as SIMPLE as that. even if this way is extremely realistic unlike games like FF where you only get better by fighting. |
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Sun May 12, 2002 7:07 pm |
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JohnnyRock30
Village Dweller
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 19
Location: Philadelphia PA USA |
(points at original poster and laughs uncontrollably) You have got to be kidding. One of the most ingenious skill-based levelling systems is.......stupid? You, my friend, are an ass. Go play your final fantasy clap-trap. |
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Sun May 12, 2002 7:13 pm |
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Xiron Darkheart
Village Dweller
Joined: 27 Apr 2002
Posts: 13
Location: Vermont |
I think this is the Best game to come along in years! I love the levelling system. This is my perfect game. It met all the hype in my eyes and meets my expectations completely.
Any improvements from here on out are just gonna be gravy!
_________________
>>>Kill 'em all , let the gods sort 'em out!<<< |
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Sun May 12, 2002 9:18 pm |
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Jellyfish
Guest
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For my comment about the original poster I will have to quote Mr T...
"I pity the fool!"
Your comment is like saying playing 8-ball is boring because you can just push all the balls into the pockets with your hand or that ten pin bowling is boring because you can run down the aisle and kick down all the pins.
As a veteran of both Arena and Daggerfall it is extremely frustrating to be in Australia waiting for my copy to arrive by mail order, while people have already got it that just don't GET IT |
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Mon May 13, 2002 3:16 am |
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Meck
Guest
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The leveling system is great!
The only grudge i have with it is that it doesn't seem to well balanced? I mean if i ran all the time all that goes up is my speed? I reckon my endurance would go up as well. As with wearing lighter armours or wielding shorter blades and stuff. Although that might take me a longer time, but it eventually will!
I think there should be some kinda percentage distribution... like atheletism would give you 1 X speed and maybe 0.5 X endurance |
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Mon May 13, 2002 8:35 am |
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Guest
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True, if you run alot your skill goes up. Somewhat "similar" to real life; instead of me being the fat blob sitting behind a computer you see before you, I'd actually get muscles if I went outside and exercised. It's a strange concept, I know, and one I haven't fully grasped yet obviously.
Cheers. |
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Mon May 13, 2002 10:23 pm |
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yeesh
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 113
Location: Unofficially representing Queens |
Folks, the leveling system is workable, but it's hardly great. Let us remember that the concept of a skill based leveling system is definitely old hat; it's been done plenty of times before, and it has some well-known problems. What differentiates Morrowind's is the inclusion of the attribute advancement system, and that itself has some flaws.
The advancement in an rpg (lvl, stats, equip) is the real hook. That's what makes a these games so painfully fun: planning and incrementally powering up your character. A skill-based system is supposed to be transparent, advancing your character's prowess in a manner consistent with the way you use him. The skills part of the Morrowind system does this just fine. The attribute multiplier part, however, does not do so well. Instead of being transparent, now that I know how it works I find it intrusive.
Consider my current (first) character. I made an Argonian (why not? I figured the universe didn't need another friggin elf) custom, a sort of sword saint kinda guy with magic punch (I thought): Sword, unarmored, mysticism, restoration all majors, med armor, athlete, more magics as minors. Made sense to me. Now all I wanted to do was to go around and kill stuff with my 2H-sword, and trap souls, and heal up, usually unarmored and later with medium armor. No sweet-talking or sneaking here. Peachy, the game lets me do just that. I level several times, notice that while I normally get 2X multipliers, sometimes I get one 3X (at those times I thought, "sweet!"). END never offers more than a 1X. I gain 3hp per level.
Having nothing to do at work all day, I go online to check how this kooky system works, my only goal being to see how to get a single 3X every time. What do I find out? That I could be getting not just 3X but 5X, and not just to one attribute, but 5X to 3 attributes! Considering that the only thing I got from leveling was hp, and considering that I wasn't getting very many at that, I began to realize that every time I made a level without putting 5X to END, I was just costing myself hp. At lvl 20 I was looking at less than 100hp, and I could tell even at my measely lvl 8 that blighed rats were going to be a real threat to someone that gimped (diseases and blights seem to get mightier as your level rises).
So I did what the game mechanics allow me to do: I set about trying to raise my END (30) by using the skills availible to me: hvy armor, spear, medium armor. Medium was a minor, so I figured I'd use that. Unfortunately, fighting with armor, sword and restoration was what got me to 2X-ville in the first place (since gaining any 10 points in maj/min nets me a lvl, and all those skills are maj/min); I realized I'd need to use my favorite skills sparingly if I was going to get in 10 points of END skills before I move up each level.
To finally get to the point, I'm now running around with heavy armor and a spear, not casting restoration spells (relying on potions) and carefully monitoring my skill progress so that I don't level until I've gotten in my END skills. I've gotten END up to 67, and when I do level there are finally some hp, meaning I'm able to wonder around without dying too much. Problem is, I wanted to be a 2H-sword-swinging, unarmored (til later in the game), restoration-casting badass. Instead I'm a heavily-armored, spear-poking potion-guzzler. This is a system that would penalize me with very low hps for playing the way I want. That's not the way it's supposed to work.
I'm not too upset about it, and my next character will be a straight-up mage with a suspiciously high starting END so I'll be a little more free with my playing. I love the game, but for those of us who like to feel like we're getting the most out of each level, the leveling system is a little tedious and could have been made better with some forthought. Please don't lavish too much praise upon it. |
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Tue May 14, 2002 1:37 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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The hit points/endurance is the biggest crunch I've noticed, yes. Getting 6 is better than 3 by a LOT. Getting 9 is great. That being said... every character I've made has the Lady birthsign. (25 endurance and personality? Is there a downside here?). Sigh.
There are ways around it without having to turn your sword wielding Arconian into a spear wielder. If spear is a misc and heavy armor is a misc... pay for training. Anyone who says you don't get multipliers for paid training is... uh... either correct and my game is bugged in a good way or incorrect and theirs is bugged in a bad way. Spear is nice and cheap, so is heavy armor and medium at low levels.
Last level for the heck of it I set out to get a x5 available in each stat. Cost me a pretty penny... but... no problem.
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Tue May 14, 2002 2:19 pm |
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Wabbit
Guest
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well Xen, your game must be different then mine, because i tested it out early on. Training Misc. skills does not add to multipliers at level up. Try this: get your character all ready to level up. quicksave before you gain that last skill point though. Check what your multipliers are by leveling. Lets say you get 5x in STR and END, 3x in Speed. Now load your quicksave from before you leveled, and run and get 10 levels of training in a miscellaneous skill, say ight armor. Level again. I guarantee you that you will NOT see a 5x Agility bonus on level up. If Light Armor was a Major or Minor skill you would.
I agree that hit points and the END bonuses that allow them are the flaw in the whole system. There are just not enough Endurance skills. Luckily I enjoy using a spear, but now is the powergamer going to dictate that every character I create spear fight? It is limiting for sure. As for medium armor I usually just wear a breastplate and boots or something, you don't get the sense of a character in full armor, or the weight penalty, but your medium armor skill continues to go up. |
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Tue May 14, 2002 2:49 pm |
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yeesh
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 113
Location: Unofficially representing Queens |
quote:
Originally posted by EverythingXen
There are ways around it without having to turn your sword wielding Arconian into a spear wielder. If spear is a misc and heavy armor is a misc... pay for training. Anyone who says you don't get multipliers for paid training is... uh... either correct and my game is bugged in a good way or incorrect and theirs is bugged in a bad way. Spear is nice and cheap, so is heavy armor and medium at low levels.
Last level for the heck of it I set out to get a x5 available in each stat. Cost me a pretty penny... but... no problem.
This sure doesn't work for me. Paid training gives me multipliers for majors and minors, but not for miscs. I'll try again tonight to make sure I'm not crazy... |
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Tue May 14, 2002 8:38 pm |
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Incindium
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 17 Oct 2001
Posts: 187
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I think you need to train in a misc skill that is based on the same attribute as one of the minor or major skills you used to to get 10 skill level to level up for the trick to work. |
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Tue May 14, 2002 9:21 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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I bought 10 levels of merchantile and got a x5 multiplier when I leveled up. Since that was about two hours later when I was lost as all hell in the ashlands at level 3 with stupid flying pain the butt birds raining on me during an ash storm and I don't even HAVE a personality skill as a major or minor... I leveled up with my block and axe and heavy armor skills exclusively for that level because I was so mixed up and lost. 
I do this with magic skills all the time. Buy 10 levels of restoration (a misc) before I hit something with a weapon to push me to the level point. I have no will skills as major or minor but buying a mix of them up to 10 will give me a x5 (or sometimes a x3 or 4. It's a crap shoot... but know it's the paid training doing it because like I said I have no will skills in my primary or secondary...).
*shrug* I won't complain as its often the only way my merchant character can keep his combat stats going up (I make sure I buy 5 heavy armor, 5 medium armor, and 2 spear just in case... as well as buy a few levels in blunt, athletics, and armorer as soon as I level because inevitably I'll accidently barter my way to the next level. curse my addiction to greed. )
_________________
Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Wed May 15, 2002 4:04 am |
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