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Rordog
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 111
Location: kelowna |
Just wondering how you would go about submitting or getting a story/game idea developed.
How do you prevent the company from just stealing your idea if they like it?
Thanks in advance.
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Winning isn't everything it is the only thing! |
Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:07 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
I've seen developers answer this sort of question before and by and large the answer is - they don't really want you to submit this sort of stuff in the first place.  Leaving aside the potential for stealing your idea, most developers have plenty of ideas already - the difficult part is obtaining finance/publishing support to get those projects completed.
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Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:35 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
Correct, they´re not interested in your idea. See it that way: There are 20-50 people working on a game for 24 months. If everyone of them only has one good idea for a game every 6 months they definitely have more than they can ever make.
And even if you could submit your idea, how would you know they stole it? How can you know that a very similar idea hasn´t been collecting dust in their office for 10 years?
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Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:59 am |
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Rordog
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 111
Location: kelowna |
Thanks for the heads up. It just sucks to know that I have an idea that blows away any story line of any game I have ever played. I have even ran the idea past quite a few people and they agree about its potential. All well maybe next life time.
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Winning isn't everything it is the only thing! |
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Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:38 am |
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corwin
On the Razorblade of Life
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
Posts: 8376
Location: Australia |
Might I suggest making a game mod using your idea. You might be able to use that to 'get a foot in the door' if that is where your interest lies.
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If God said it, then that settles it!
I don't use Smileys, I use Emoticons!!
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Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:46 am |
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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
A) Get into the industry as a programmer, QA tester, writer, or some other position at a game company work your way up the ranks to a designer or producer position.
B) Write up your idea in a design document going through every detail and everything required to make your idea into reality, from the story itself to the kind of art, music, and feel you want the game to have. Have someone draw up concept art. Then find others who share your vision and make a mod or project out of it. It may even lead to a game. Take a look at the people behind ERA, from mod team to dev team.
C) Finance and form your own game company. Obviously the hardest and most unlikely of all options.
To be honest, there are far too many good ideas, and very few developed, thought out, and implemented ideas. A couple years ago, I got really interested about trying to get into the game industry. So I got in touch with various developers at a couple of my favorite game companies (and still keep regular correspondence with a few of them), and e-mailed them questions week after week, poking and prodding their minds for insight. What I found out was not what I wanted to hear, that the position of game designer (aka, "think tank" or "brilliant idea man") is largely a misnomer--there are various types of designers with or without the official title, but the "idea man" kicked back in his leather chair, with cool shades, sampling fine wines, and making money for the company doesn't exist. Like others have said, ideas come from all over--from the team and even from fans.
Not only that, there are many other factors that can make a good idea a bad idea if it hits the wrong target audience. Let's say I wanted to make a game based on Chinese mythology, based off of folklore most young East Asians are familiar with. I have a great story, a great cast of characters, and I can see and taste the feel of the game. It's got its unique look. But if I try marketing it to primarily an American or European audience, it might not be well received, because they are not familiar with Chinese mythology and culture (and don't understand or care about it).
The time for different types of games changes. You can have a superb MUD, but to expect your MUD to become mainstream and popular among RPG gamers, who probably prefer 2D/3D games, might be another matter.
And what about finances, talent, and resources to develop your idea to the fullest? What about the contributions and criticism the team will levy at your idea? How they'll change it? Once you give them your idea, it's going to become theirs too. You might have your plot structure diagrammed out, planning to give the player 100 different choices at each critical story juncture to take the story on a different route, but, due to limitations, you have to trim those down to maybe two or three choices, because the constant branching leads to infinite work hours, funds, and time to implement. This is a serious consideration, because, as one of my friends said, RPGs are extremely demanding on time, manpower, and money. The market, while popular, is still a niche compared to larger markets like those for first-person shooters or gambling games. (My friend used to be a programmer for Black Isle.)
This sounds terribly disheartening, but it is the same in business, writing, science, or any other field for that matter. Most of the time people don't want good ideas. They want good work.
If you are willing to sacrifice to achieve it, because you believe and know it is worth it, then nothing will stop you.
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Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
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Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:29 am |
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piln
High Emperor
Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 906
Location: Leeds, UK |
And don't forget that having good ideas is only the start - almost anyone can have a good idea for a game, but design is all about understanding how to make those ideas work in gameplay. And currently the best way you can prove you are capable of this is to make a mod - if you really have confidence in your idea, then I say you should set about implementing it in one of the existing RPG toolsets (Morrowind or NWN... are there any other moddable RPGs?  ).
The first thing you should do is break the whole thing down into small, acheivable tasks. If you try to do everything at once, it just won't happen. If your idea is centered around story, then forget about new graphics, new weapons/itmes, etc. for now - write a small encounter that proves your concept, then script the necessary events/NPCs (something like this is pretty easy to do in Morrowind's tools, not sure about NWN). If it works, then you could see about getting help with art & programming if needed, and move onto something bigger. The most important thing is to keep your goals realistic - all too often, ambitious mods disappear without a trace mid-development. You don't want to end up with nothing to show, especially as mod-making is currently the best way to demonstrate your talents to the industry.
If your concept is so radical that it can't be implemented in any exisiting game's toolset, then you've got no choice but to get your hands dirty with some programming. I'd recommmend Blitz3D, it's cheap, easy to learn, and it's C++ compatible (so anything you learn will still be useful after you stop using it). It's currently used to make low-budget games and prototypes for developers to show to prospective publishers.
If you really believe you have a worthwhile idea, and can get support from friends, then you should give it a try. Don't be deterred if it seems like too much effort, it'll be worth it if you can see it through to a finished product. |
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Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:57 pm |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
quote:
Originally posted by Namirrha
A)To be honest, there are far too many good ideas, and very few developed, thought out, and implemented ideas.
Boy is this true. The gameplay is the most important thing by a long shot and while a good story may add greatly to the overall experience it's the gameplay issues that are far more important.
As a simple example (and there's a million of them) I thought Lionheart had the most interesting concept in years. Pity the execution was mediocre on almost every level.
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Editor @ RPGDot |
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Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:03 pm |
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RPG Frog
Blade Runner
Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Posts: 748
Location: the Matrix |
quote:
Originally posted by corwin
Might I suggest making a game mod using your idea. You might be able to use that to 'get a foot in the door' if that is where your interest lies.
Corwin is right. Lots of developers(ID, Bioware, Bethsoft etc.) have said in magazines that this is a great method. Actually, I think the last issue of Game Informer had an interview with programmers from Bioware stating this exact thing. That if you have the goal to be in the game industry as a programmer or designer, that a MOD is a very acceptable way to get your foot in the door and show that you have what it takes. If it is good, you WILL get noticed by software companies. They love seeing what YOU do with their product!
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Between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities…there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars…Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand…to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandaled feet. - Robert E. Howard |
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Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:09 am |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
Ive looked into the same thing for a loooooong time (5 years). In my opinion, it just isnt worth it. Its too much of a pain in the butt unless you use something like DarkBasic Pro. I dont get some of these people that arent willing to do the work. I worked on my stupid CRPG for months by myself with zero funding and it was just a big letdown. You have to have at least five million $$$ in the bank to make a serious game nowadays. You arent going to get funded by anyone unless its your blood father or uncle Joe that works as the CEO of a company like LucasArts.
Even the professionals arent doing that great in the harsh business of computer gaming. They get fired left and right. I feel sorry for those who work non-stop on a project that just gets canned in the end or runs out of funding. The vast majority of projects are financial failures, anyway. Most publishers make hardly a profit. The only people doing well in the games industry are all making console games.
You cant count on funding, even from a reliable source. And even if you find someone to publish your game, such as Garagegames, still you have to fund the creation of the project on your own. For me, that just isnt going to happen.
my advice to you is, in all seriousness, just WRITE FICTION BOOKS, get published for cheap at 1stbooks.com, and then hope that someone reads your book. otherwise, there is no chance for making a game if you dont have any resources (money, slaves, property, equipment). Nobody talented is going to volunteer to help you anyway, unless you pay them big bucks to do it regularly and start paying them up-front so they can support their families.
In my opinion, do what some others have said and make a MOD or work in a Neverwinter Nights or Morrowind editor until you finally realize that one man cant do that much anymore. There are no good garage games anymore because its too difficult to make them. Thats why all the independents are dying, and thats why in the near future, the only people that will be willing to make games are those that have money and a big publisher to back them up. The rest are pipe dreams, im afraid, unless you work 10 years alone on a game that ends up being sold for $2.99 at walmart, which hardly nobody buys because its so damn outdated technologically, graphically, ect...
Sorry to be discouraging, but im being totally honest; im not going to pull a fast one and lie about it. In my opinion, its not worth all the endlessly long hours, mind-numbing effort, and brain-wrackingness. I just about went off the deep end while doing my game. so i quit, and i feel a hell of a lot better about my life right now. |
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Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:57 am |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
In short: just play games and forget about making one. |
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Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:01 am |
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Namirrha
Noble Knight
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 218
Location: Utah County, Utah. |
Wow, Ammon, I'm very sad to hear that. It's true that a serious project requires about $2-5 million in funding, yet because the odds are not in our favor, does that mean we should back down from anything that looks daunting?
Even in writing fiction books, there are too many aspiring writers and few published writers and even fewer writers who can earn a living solely from their work (a small handful). Often, most aspiring writers are just that: dreaming, hoping, and waiting for a big opportunity, which may or may not come. In a sense, it is a game of chance, but you can help bias it in your favor.
The way I see it, talent is not a problem. Friends, family, coworkers, etc. Most people know other talented people. Finding dedicated people with the talents you're looking for--that's the big problem. Bringing together dedicated people, keeping them, and directing them--problems multiplied with each other, where funding, management, and other things become serious concerns.
I don't see the independent game scene dying entirely. Although, what I wonder, is it possible that computer gaming may divide itself into two markets: mainstream (led by big publishers and well-known developers) and underground (led by small developers somewhat like Spiderweb but more graphically advanced, with teams of 5-10 people making games, self-publishing, selling online or through mail-order to RPG fans as a niche product?)
There have been similar divisions in other industries and markets. One can take a look at the food markets here in the US, and see how it has changed. Organic foods, once considered hardly lucrative, are proving major contenders in supermarkets, and organic sales have grown into the billions, all in the matter of a few decades. Large-scale, commercially grown food with fertilizers and pesticides are still, by far, the norm.
You have to start somewhere. The idea, the path, the journey, and the realization of the goal all have to fall into place. You have to make them fall into place. Several of my relatives, before moving on to start their own businesses (in which they failed in the first few attempts), worked for other people. One of my aunts worked in a family business for nearly a decade before quitting and co-founding another company with her sister. Their company, until recently, has done very well. They didn't get there by dreaming alone. They needed education (one received a PhD), experience, they needed ideas, and most importantly, they acted upon them and developed them. From concepts to realized products, which are sold all over the world.
Or closer to home, with my parents, who started off as poor college students to now self-employed business owners, who can afford to put my brother and I through college.
No one can justify the sacrifice required to reach one's goals, except the one making the sacrifices. There is no guarantee that one will succeed. There must not only be desire, willpower, or belief--there must be all those; and they should be one at the core of your being, directed by well-informed, weighted decisions. (I was tempted to put reasonable, but business is often carpe diem and unreasonable. )
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Give me the shadows, shield me from the light, and I shall let nothing pass in the darkness of the night. |
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Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:58 am |
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Sir Markus
Counselor of the King
Joined: 11 Jan 2002
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus, Ohio USA |
I'd say that just with an idea you won't get far. If you have some talent as far as writing, programming or art production, you might be able to get someone to listen to your idea. Your best bet is with the independant game makers. Here is a link to Spiderweb Software. Look around their website; they have a developers page and will probably answer whatever questions you might have. Just a suggestion.
http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/index.html |
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Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:28 am |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
you could look into Garagegames and also DarkBasic Pro (which is really good now). |
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Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:32 am |
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Rordog
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 13 Feb 2004
Posts: 111
Location: kelowna |
Wow! I just wanted to thank everyone for their insight. I knew this was the place to find answers. A large part of me already had a haunting suspicion that the market was extremely over-saturated. I also could not ignore the fact that I see the same rehashed ideas being produced over and over. I realize that developers make what sells and the market is usually demanding a certain type of product, but I see so many games that would go straight from my computer to the trash without so much as a second thought. This fact alone leads me to believe that while there may be an infinite number of people with ideas, not all of them are good. If this were not true then why are there so many crappy games being produced? This is ignoring issues like poor interface and other game-play factors. I am examining these games purely on story or idea merit.
Unfortunately I have virtually no skills when it comes to programming or mod creation. Basically what it comes down to is that I want more games like Gothic 1&2 where it is obvious that the developers went to incredible lengths to draw you into their world. I am tired of games that are produced as fast as possible to turn a quick buck (Enter the Matrix), and I was simply wishing that maybe game developers were out of ideas and were in need of brilliant new perspectives. At least that would explain the abundance of CRAPPY games on the market.
Thanks again, Rordog 
P.S. When the hell is NOTR going to be release in english? This is absolutely killing me. 
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Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:11 pm |
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