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Hexmaster
Noble Knight
Joined: 17 Jan 2002
Posts: 206
Location: Bristol, England |
I browsed with interest, the Top Rated Games list.
It was interesting (surprising?), to note the release dates of the top 10 or so.......pretty old.
With the exception of a couple (e.g. Morrowind)
Fallout 1 & 2 1997 / 1998
Ultima7 parts 1992 / 1993
Planescape 1999
BG Shadows of Amn 2000
Betrayal 1993
Wastelands 1988 !!
So what does this tell us ??
Obviously there is some element of the "old Skool" type of game that is missing these days.
But, if a company released an RPG these days with the level of detail and gameplay of say, Betrayal at Krondor, it would get a right slagging.
Just an observation really. What is missing ?? Gameplay?
I bought Dungeon Siege and never completed it. Great game to start with and technically awesome, but.......it was very samey.
Now NWN, I feel is Dungeon Siege with a decent story.
Morrowind is awesome, IMHO.
Pretty grafix does not a game make.
I know we have discussed what elements make a decent RPG before and so probably should not dig it all up again, but the poll suggests that the older style games with dated grafix are what we want.
Maybe some developers should get hold of these older game and revamp them. If story / gameplay is what we need (yes IMO), then for these older games, that is already there......it just needs dragging into the millenium.
'Nuff from me
Regards,
Hexmaster
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Thu Sep 05, 2002 8:07 am |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
perhaps the game developers should get these old classics, go into a dark room with a computer (PC 486, Dos 5.0) and play these old games a couple of weeks. I would call this 'postgraduate professional education'. 
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Thu Sep 05, 2002 9:13 am |
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Rawis
Gorthaur
Joined: 01 Apr 2002
Posts: 1861
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Yeah, the developers should look back at the old games more.  |
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Thu Sep 05, 2002 1:59 pm |
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Hack`nīSack
Village Dweller
Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 4
Location: Hackensack |
quote:
Originally posted by Rawis
Yeah, the developers should look back at the old games more.
Mm, the question is: Do we want to play the old games again,maybe with some variations, or do we want something totally mindboggling new?
Or is the old game's high rankings explained by that mostly old geezers voted? (Well young one! In the days of the ZX & Vic 20 then there were GAMES!)
Have the old games found a new (young) audience, proving quality will prevail? |
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Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:02 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
Um... I voted, and my first PC was a Vic20 (if you can call it a PC...). But I am NOT an old geezer! 
hehe Seriously, good questions though. Hard to answer, and gives way to much thinking.
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Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:11 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Fear us geezers. Nostalgia wins.
All of those games are good, of course, but for some of the REAL oldies there (I'm looking at you, Wasteland) I think it's slightly rose color glasses tint... remembering when you were 14 and the first cool RPG to let you use a chainsaw to tear someone's arm off.
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Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:15 pm |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
Good questions, indeed. I'm not that old, but my first computer was a C-64, followed shortly by a VIC-20.
There is certainly atleast some nostalgia in the ratings, but still I think that many new CRPGs sacrifice too much of the content for nifty graphics and action. Not to say that they're not good at what they're doing, but still the RPG-heavy players tend to pick older, more content-rich games.
Ofcourse there are new content-rich games too, but they are in the minority.
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Fri Sep 13, 2002 6:50 pm |
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dteowner
Shoegazer
Joined: 21 Mar 2002
Posts: 7570
Location: Third Hero of Erathia |
I'm no programmer, but it would seem to me that a design team is spread much thinner these days, given the need for dedicated artists and sound guys. In the old days, graphics and sound were limited by hardware, so the members of the design team had the time to really concentrate on gameplay. Additionally, design teams of today are chosen based on economics, whereas back in the day, it was whichever passionate geeks could be convinced to sign on.
No facts to back this up- just a feeling I get.
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RIP Red Wings How 'Bout Dem Cowboys! |
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Sat Sep 14, 2002 12:49 am |
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Gish
Almighty Gish
Joined: 27 Apr 2002
Posts: 249
Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina |
in my opinion, we generally look back at the past with a positive slant. I think people remember older games as more fun they actually were. not that those games weren't good, but as more time passes the more negative stuff we forget about it and just remember the fun we had. just like people look back at being a teenager and remembering how great it was but they forget about all the stress, peer pressure, etc. etc. We will look back at the current games of today years down the road and I'm sure they'll be at the top, even though they will be old then.
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Sat Sep 14, 2002 7:43 am |
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HiddenX
The Elder Spy
Joined: 20 Jul 2001
Posts: 749
Location: NRW / Germany |
I often replay (very) old games, Champions of Krynn (Gold Box), the 2 Dark Sun games and Dungeon Master recently - there are still games with great gameplay - no need for pink glasses.
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Sat Sep 14, 2002 8:47 am |
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Gish
Almighty Gish
Joined: 27 Apr 2002
Posts: 249
Location: Spartanburg, South Carolina |
I never said that old games couldn't be really good. I just said that lots of times we remember some games as at least a little better than they were. I mean for example, I still play DOOM every now and then. obviously that's old. it's still fun though when I want to take a break from RPGs. but if I remember way back when I first played it, I thought it was a much better game then than now. and I'm not talking about graphics, or anything, just the fun I have playing it.
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Sat Sep 14, 2002 2:13 pm |
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Danicek
The Old One
Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic |
quote:
Originally posted by Gish
I never said that old games couldn't be really good. I just said that lots of times we remember some games as at least a little better than they were.
Of course we do. This is absolutely right also in not so long periods of time.
I started to play PC games before 5 years. I loved FPSs and one of first I ever played was Half-Life.
I know that it was really good FPSs. But I love it because it was first one. I doubt that there will ever be FPSs that will defeat this one in my memories... |
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Sun Sep 15, 2002 8:26 am |
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mtkafka
Village Dweller
Joined: 15 Jul 2001
Posts: 24
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Something about the 'old school' crpg's that seems to be missing from most recent crpgs is the challenge. I remember playing the Wizardry's and Bards Tales and Phantasie's being challenged most of the time. None of the Infinity Engine games or Fallout type games (as good as they are) have challenged me as much as something like Bards Tale. Wizardry 8 as 'challenging' as it was, wasn't nearly as challenging as Wiz 5-7. I love the challenge of picking the right party/characters. I like having challenges ramp up in difficulty and rewards tactical combat mechanics. Most old school rpgs, from my experience, were much more focused on the challenge factor. or maybe i DO have nostalgia beckoning.....
Not to knock recent crpg's, but since Diablo and Baldurs Gate, most of em are a little too easy for me. But I still like alot of the post Windows 95 crpgs.
etc |
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Sun Sep 15, 2002 11:21 am |
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mDrop
High Emperor
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 479
Location: Under the desk |
Now games have to appeal to wider audiences, so they might not be as challenging or deep as they used to be. 5 years ago, most CRPG players were "hardcore" gamers, so the focus group was clear. Now developers want more audience, so they have to expand that focus group and make it more appealing to more people. Sadly, often this results in shallow and "too easy" games.
When I read about new CRPGs, I often see the developers highlighting the fact that the game is not hard to learn and the phrase "we are trying to please inexperienced gamers and still give veterans the depth they want" is very common. Sadly, these two aspects are often too hard to combine completely. When you make thing easy to do, you take away a lot of the challenge..
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Sun Sep 15, 2002 1:12 pm |
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Hack`nīSack
Village Dweller
Joined: 12 Sep 2002
Posts: 4
Location: Hackensack |
quote:
Originally posted by mtkafka
Something about the 'old school' crpg's that seems to be missing from most recent crpgs is the challenge. I remember playing the Wizardry's and Bards Tales and Phantasie's being challenged most of the time. None of the Infinity Engine games or Fallout type games (as good as they are) have challenged me as much as something like Bards Tale. Wizardry 8 as 'challenging' as it was, wasn't nearly as challenging as Wiz 5-7. I love the challenge of picking the right party/characters. I like having challenges ramp up in difficulty and rewards tactical combat mechanics. Most old school rpgs, from my experience, were much more focused on the challenge factor. or maybe i DO have nostalgia beckoning.....
Well, I didn't play Wizardry and only BT2 but I can't remember the Phantasie's to be all to challenging.On the other hand, that was over 10 years ago so I might be remembering wrong.
Old school rpg:s. I still shudder when I think of Eye Of The Beholder & Dungeon Hack.I suppose that's why Baldurs Gate became so popular when it came. |
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Thu Sep 19, 2002 5:17 pm |
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