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Pesky Wabbit
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 04 May 2002
Posts: 33
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The system as it stands is workable. There could be improvements, but if you learn how it works you'll do fine.
With monsters, experience is the best teacher. You get to know the different species and how tough they are quickly. You will see when you hit, and you know how much damage your weapon does for each kind of attack, so you will know how you are doing. Also as mentioned creatures will usually give some audio and visual feedback when they are near death. Often the animation is similar to the death animation.
With humanoids, it is more difficult, but size them up. Most shopkeepers and townsfolk are pretty hearty, they do not live in this tough world and get soft. With random encounters, look at how well they are arrayed. If their gear looks worse than yours, you probably are good to go unless it's 3 to 1. If they look like a catalog model for "expensive wizard robes R Us" or they've got armor that blinds you when it gleams, you're probably outclassed.
You ARE alone, so be careful about being outnumbered no matter how tough you are, and try not to get caught with your pants down - stash some healing potions for an emergency, keep your weapons repaired, don't run in a strange, unfamiliar place until you're totally exhausted and then expect to fight much. |
Tue May 07, 2002 10:20 pm |
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Hyperion
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 07 May 2002
Posts: 122
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quote:
Originally posted by Somnus
The gayest thing I've heard are the words in your messages Hyperion, don't get nasty in the forums please.
Hope I didn't ruin your day.
quote:
Watch boxing, ever seen a heavily bleeding man just *never* go down, and even ends up winning the bout?
That's a great example of endurance, and maybe boxing wasn't the greatest example for me to us here though I would consider a non-bleeding man healthier than a profusely bleeding man. The fact of the matter is, that some people have a bettter tolerance of pain and injury than others.
quote:
Ever seen a man who has't a scratch on him get knocked out in one punch?
Ahhh...here's a single event case. One moment he's standing, the next he is not. That doesn't mean we wasn't perfectly healthy before hand. All that means is that he's not perfectly healthy now. There's not much of transition to speak of, and that's why a Healthy indicator (of some form) is important. So you can observe the transition.
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Even seen people in wars get shot and just keep on fighting?
Though I'm sure it happens...No, I haven't seen someone get shot and keep on fighting? Have you? Again, different people have different levels of tolerance to pain and injury.
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These things happen all the time. Also, try adding injured textues to every character, and you're talking about quadruple the space currently used by those textures. The game wouldn't run.
Not necessarily true. I have no idea if the engine MW uses would support it, but there are games out there that have no probelm rendering injury textures on models. And you wouldn't have to quadruple the number of model textures either. You can always develop generic injury transperancies and use those as over lays for the specific part of the body you want to display an injury for. MW makes it even easier since you can't target body parts. Again, I have no idea if it's possible. They're absence from the game may suggest taht it is not.
quote:
As the guy/girl above said, there are lots of things that give health status away. You just need to pay attention to them.
He's not the only one who said it, read my first post. |
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Tue May 07, 2002 10:52 pm |
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Hyperion
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 07 May 2002
Posts: 122
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quote:
Originally posted by Mephisto
Hyperion: Console commands have no sexual preference. None. Grow up and stop using terms like that to descripe an attempt to be helpfull.
The term "gay" has meanings beyond strict "sexual preference." Now, whether you use it for other meanings means nothing to me. Sorry if I offended you and ruined you day. Hope you'll be able to sleep tonight. |
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Tue May 07, 2002 10:58 pm |
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TheMadGamer
High Emperor
Joined: 03 May 2002
Posts: 487
Location: Southern California |
While no health bar is certainly someething to get used to, I don't understand the utter fear of engaging in an unknown monster battle. I mean, so you get your butt handed to you. Just reload and either try again with a different approach or just avoid the conflict. It's no big deal.
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The Poster Previously Known As NeptiOfPovar |
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Tue May 07, 2002 11:12 pm |
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OhBrandi
The Pun-Slayer
Joined: 04 May 2002
Posts: 1038
Location: Somewhere this side of sanity. |
I tend to agree that some visual indication would be appropriate.
The fact that there are verbal clues help me not a bit since I had to turn off the sound completely just to run the game. ;-p
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Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
Thanks, JM
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Neverwinter Nights Co-Moderator= |
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Wed May 08, 2002 12:06 am |
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Decado
Head Merchant
Joined: 25 Mar 2002
Posts: 65
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quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
Just take alittle time to get used to it. After awhile you won't miss it at all.
Speek for yourself. |
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Wed May 08, 2002 12:10 am |
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Shifter
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 303
Location: Morrowind |
It's funny, people complain they want realism, they get it and they complain.
Real Life example:
I get into a fight with some guy I've never met who was hitting on my girl..he looks fairly weak but I cannot tell. I choose to fight him. I get my ass kicked royally.
Real Life example with added health bars to detract from "realism"
I get into a fight with some guy I've never met who was hitting on my girl. I notice his health is substantially high...and from that I choose to not fight.
I choose to run away and live to fight another day.
Now obviously the 2nd example is totally real..erm...I lost where I was going with this..but you guys can make out my point.
(In other words..no health=realism=Awesome)
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Shifter |
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Wed May 08, 2002 12:10 am |
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Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Danicek
Yes, this is one of most often dislike in this game.
But some other people say, that it is more realistical this way.
I do not know, I havnt played this game yet.
Well in real life you can see how much damage you've done and what state the opponent is in. |
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Wed May 08, 2002 12:17 am |
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Jellomancer
Guest
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quote:
Originally posted by Shifter
It's funny, people complain they want realism, they get it and they complain.
Real Life example:
I get into a fight with some guy I've never met who was hitting on my girl..he looks fairly weak but I cannot tell. I choose to fight him. I get my ass kicked royally.
Real Life example with added health bars to detract from "realism"
I get into a fight with some guy I've never met who was hitting on my girl. I notice his health is substantially high...and from that I choose to not fight.
I choose to run away and live to fight another day.
Now obviously the 2nd example is totally real..erm...I lost where I was going with this..but you guys can make out my point.
(In other words..no health=realism=Awesome)
A health bar shows percentage of full health... Bruce Lee and I would have identical health bars. After you started to beat on me, you would be able to see how healthy I am, which is where the health bar comes in. |
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Wed May 08, 2002 12:18 am |
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Hyperion
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 07 May 2002
Posts: 122
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So during your first example, wouldn't there be a point when you realize, "hey I don't seem to be hurting this guy that much" (Assuming of course that you even hit him)? A visual indication doesn't necessarily mean you're told that you're opponent has 200/205 hitpoints. in fact hitpoints do not tell you that the NPC you face can cast a 200 point fireball. What a visual indication does is give you a way to visually observe that you are or are not having an effect on your opponent.
For those of you that say no visually indication is more realistic, how would you like the game if it had no health indicator for your character? Wouldn't that be more realistic? I would say no, since you need some way to determine the state of your character. After all, you can't feel him. The same goes for NPCs and monsters. You have such a detachment from their existance that you need some way of determining what state they are in. Their verbals are one way and are often helpful. However, there are many times when I've wondered "am I really hurting this guy." After all, he was yelling like crazy, but he was kicking the crap out of me. Last thing some NPCs have said to me before I killed them were of the affect that I was week. That doesn't sound like the throes of a dying man. So sometimes the audio cues can be mis-leading. |
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Wed May 08, 2002 12:30 am |
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Noman
Guest
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I don't understand all this realism talk.
In real world you don't get a number on meeting someone for the first time of how they view your character. In real world, you can't look at clothes and find a number which gives you the armour class.
There are lot of things in Morrowind, that are abstracted by numbers which have no equivalent in real world. It's a game after all.
And besides it's just an abstraction.
Not allowing health bar or some visual feedback to guage enemy's health is an extremely poor design decision. It's not consistent with the game either as almost everything else is done by the numbers (no pun) |
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Wed May 08, 2002 12:39 am |
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guest
Guest
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Morrowinds combat and physical damage indicators are as they have been described before, near death they grunt alot and taunt alot more as well. You have to admit, well no you don't...but for me...the feeling I get when I am fighting a flame atronach at level 4 and I have used 4 potions and only have one left and the atranoch goes down early, I think not having a health bar adds immense amounts of immersiveness on a subconscious level even more so than what is noticed. (some people complain but they actually get a rush from it in game, whether its actually frustration or just tension from having unknowns that gives you warm fuzzies)
Realism is only half attained thru having no health bar. It doesnt show physical indicators....
However, it could be easily modded, I'm thinking. If you only used the face textures, and only added textures that were indicative of actual health. For instance there are 4 textures for a given npcs face..you make 4 variations each with one extra scrape, or gash and a big scape or bruise, etc. to show varying levels of the can of ass whipage being opened.
Its a little off the topic of this post, but...one of the MOST satisfying things in this game is the knock down effect...mhmm...It's very cool to beat a deadra half to death in two hits, as he drops to his knees. Then two more giants swings from the axe(unblockable)=death. So wonderful. It's even very satisfying to take a momentary dirt nap YOURSELF too. The sounds for 'hit' also need to be changed or modded(easily done also). an arrow sounds the same as a battle, as a dagger, as a fist when a rat bites my leg, even if its a giant rat with blight, it should be a bone crunching sound, as it I got hit by a claymore. Also I am not sure, but I think that the size of the explosion of blood when you DO hit also changes size to show damage dealt, but I'm not sure. |
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Wed May 08, 2002 12:43 am |
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Guest
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"That's about the gayest thing I've heard."
You have never listened to YMCA by the Village people then... |
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Wed May 08, 2002 1:07 am |
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Decado
Head Merchant
Joined: 25 Mar 2002
Posts: 65
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quote:
Originally posted by Shifter
(In other words..no health=realism=Awesome)
That is BS. Health bars (or equivelent) are used as a substitute for model damage (which I'd prefer, but is more time consuming to implement). AFAIC, you cannot say "not having health bars (or equivelent) is realistic" when there is no model damage.
Trust me, as they guy gazes uppon your broken, bleeding body, I'm pretty sure he can tell that you're in rough shape.
There is nothing "realistic" about how combat is done in MW. |
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Wed May 08, 2002 1:08 am |
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Shifter
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 303
Location: Morrowind |
Everyone's making great and valid points.
I guess it's safe to say, in my opinion anyways, that I love the game with or without Health bars...do what you will to my game but you will not distract me from being immersed into an awesome world...
_________________
Shifter
Last edited by Shifter on Wed May 08, 2002 1:12 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Wed May 08, 2002 1:09 am |
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