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vernes
Village Dweller
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 2
Location: The Netherlands |
Altough the current discription is suffice for those who are unfamiliar to the game, it might be a good idea to mention the history of the development of Horizons.
This to supply those new to the game with some insight on why a large group of the community seem to be hellbound to get PvP (Player Versus Player combat system) in the game.
In the past the game Horizons was lead and developed by a differend team than is now working on it.
During this time, Horizons was designed with PvP at its core.
The whole gameplay was designed to have a well balanced and quite original PvP system.
It was this game that caused a big hype and this game that attracted a large fan-community.
Then there was a blackout, no more information was released and the Horizons website was taken offline untill further noticed.
Alot of fans left.
Having seen 'vaporware' (games that were under development but never got released, but instead got cancelled) in previous games, they did not want to experience this once more with what seemed a creative and unique game.
And some stayed, hoping things will turn for the better
Then information was released, the developer-team had been replaced with a new team.
And so fan-community grew even smaller.
PvP was dropped and PvE (Player Versus Enviroment, where the only thing you can kill are computer controlled monsters) was implemented.
The whole PvP system that got old fans fired up, was gone.
And ofcourse the community was outraged at first, not all, but alot.
And while the community was growing in numbers by the inflow of new fans, fans who heard of the new Horizons, heated discussions started between the old fans who wanted their PvP Horizons back, and new ones who didn't understand what the old fan's problem was.
"This is a PvE game, go away if you want PvP."
We used to have Bloodwars, certain races were in war with certain other races, and killing between these races had no consequences.
And there were dragons, who would have the hardest time of them all (up to a point).
Dragons would start out as big as a dog, and would be target of many, many players, for the dragon contained powerfull dragon blood, that could be used for potions, and dragon skin, to make excellent armour.
The dragon would grow bigger over time (IF not killed) and would be a giant umong the players.
Systems would be in place to keep the number of dragons to a certain maximum, to prevent an overpopulation of these tirants.
Now, dragons are but a novelty, an oversized lizard that can fly about.
They even talked about giving dragons the ability to transform into a humanoid form so it can walk in places he would not be able otherwise.
Vampires, Demons, Werewolves... They're all gone now.
And it's this why you'll read alot of discussions going on about PvP.
We miss it. 
- Vernes (Please let my typo's be small in numbers)
Last edited by vernes on Fri Mar 07, 2003 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
Fri Mar 07, 2003 11:45 am |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
I miss the old HORIZONS. They screwed us by firing the entire original team. I'm not giving the new version a chance, since there are better games coming out anyway, such as SWG and Dragon Empires. |
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Fri Mar 07, 2003 4:39 pm |
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vernes
Village Dweller
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 2
Location: The Netherlands |
Well, at the moment I'm not very familiar with those games.
They never managed to catch my attention enough for me to study them more closely.
Besides, I doubt you're really 'not giving a chance'.
If you would, you'd ignore this thread 
In my case, I'm giving it thesame attention as I do with all the other games that are in development.
.. too much that is. 
What DOES strike me as typical is that 'Horizons' has triggered a web-wide discussion about the pro's and con's of PvP and PvE.
Never have I seen somany forums and threads discussing this subject before.
- Vernes |
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Fri Mar 07, 2003 10:30 pm |
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KAS
Village Dweller
Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 22
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| Horizons may be the only good fantasy offering this year |
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I've followed Horizons since the days of the Bloodwars design document, but what people need to realize is that all this team really had when they went public was a design document, a few models, and a lot of ambition. The team wasn't completely replaced though, the largest change was that the founder of Artifact Entertainment, the game's developers, left the company. He moved on to work on (and just recently release) A Tale In The Desert, which is ironically a mmog which takes the focus completely off pvp.
Horizons today is a new game, but if you take a look at the trailers they've released:
http://www.istaria.com/mod.php?mod=downloads&op=showcat&id=1&level=1&menu=18&PHPSESSID=edc3b79476239c90177b48618487e9e6
You'll see that this game is a lot more than the smoke and mirrors that AE was trying to run with during the first days. The game is looking very good and could even release this year seeing as they're now into beta, which you can sign up for here:
http://beta.istaria.com/
Don't get me wrong, when the original design was released it looked amazing, but one huge problem you face when you begin work on a mmog is trying to keep from showing your hand too early. You can have what you feel is the best design document in the world, but until you have a concrete system running and are at least 60 percent certain you're going to be shipping according to your document, it doesn't do you or your fans very much good to release information on what you <hope> your game will deliver, it's best to go with what you know it <will> deliver. In the long run your fans will be a lot happier with you also.
As far as the Horizons we see nearing release now, it may be all pve, but Artifact has been fairly vocal about their plans to create a pvp version of the game as well once they complete the pve. Although I'm skeptical about this announcement and feel this may be their attempt to silence the noise made by the anti=pvp stance they've taken, if they actually do concentrate on a pvp game based on the same engines, it may provide a better experience than just throwing pvp into the current design as a 'feature' like most games tend to. Again though, splitting your player base between two different games complete, pvp and pve, could ultimately hurt your total income per game, so it's a shakey proposition.
At this point in time, mmogs are actually in a tight spot. I myself continue to pay for, but never use, an Everquest account. I gave up on Dark Ages (underdeveloped beyond belief with terrible pvp systems, and showing that 4 million dollar development budget very badly) after one month of play, I've never cares for games like Ultima that use those 1986 graphics engines, and Anarchy Online and the other available cheapie mmogs or sci fi/fps mmogs just don't get my attention. I've been watching the developments of almost all the fantasy based mmogs (and have also followed the other themed offerings of the genre without much interest, but wanting to see what was in development) and it's difficult to say when a mmog truly worthy of being considered a next generation mmog will be released. I've been holding onto that EQ account and logging in every two or three weeks here and there only to become very bored with the now boring gameplay elements, while waiting for a fresh world to open up that can really provide a good year or two of play.
So, looking at Horizons as it is today, I've hoping they can bring out something truly worthwhile, and do it sometime this year. Shadowbane is going to be a huge let down, Asheron's Call 2 is as bad a sequel as the first game was a bomb, Eve isn't my thing and I can't stand Star Wars. So, for the fantasy theme gamers out there, a new world is definitely needed and if Horizons can provide even a bridge of 6 months worth of play, then I'm all for it. If they bring out a new pvp game afterwords, they may be the first company in history to make both sides of that argument truly happy.
KAS |
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Sat Mar 08, 2003 1:57 am |
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Shrapnel
Rocket Scientist
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 1325
Location: Newark, NJ |
| Re: Horizons may be the only good fantasy offering this year |
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quote:
Originally posted by KAS
I've never cares for games like Ultima that use those 1986 graphics engines, and Anarchy Online and the other available cheapie mmogs or sci fi/fps mmogs just don't get my attention.
Thats funny
quote:
Originally posted by KAS
Asheron's Call 2 is as bad a sequel as the first game was a bomb
Thats not, AC1 was, and still is leagues above evercamp with its 8bit graphics. Although, yea...AC2 is pure trash
quote:
Originally posted by KAS
I can't stand Star Wars.
Hmmm this speaks volumes about you |
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Tue Jun 03, 2003 7:54 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
Just a quick comment before i go back to PlanetSide. The first Asherons Call was pretty good. I am hard to please, but i played AC1 for 6 months... It was my first mmorpg and i loved it... Why anyone would hate Star Wars is beyond me... God loves wonderous variety, i guess! |
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Wed Jun 04, 2003 12:45 am |
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Sihn
Guest
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| Re: Horizons may be the only good fantasy offering this year |
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quote:
Originally posted by Shrapnel
quote:
Originally posted by KAS
I've never cares for games like Ultima that use those 1986 graphics engines, and Anarchy Online and the other available cheapie mmogs or sci fi/fps mmogs just don't get my attention.
Thats funny
I agree
quote:
Originally posted by KAS
Asheron's Call 2 is as bad a sequel as the first game was a bomb
Thats not, AC1 was, and still is leagues above evercamp with its 8bit graphics. Although, yea...AC2 is pure trash
 Kas how do you define bomb? Plenty of ppl still playing it and its over 3 years old.
quote:
Originally posted by KAS
I can't stand Star Wars.
Hmmm this speaks volumes about you[/quote] I also agree. |
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Fri Jun 06, 2003 9:48 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
Im glad Turbine ISNT making this one. MEO looks like crap already.  The most important game of all time, Middle Earth Online, is being made by idiots. So much for that one. Darkfall will even beat MEO out unless MEO attracts hordes of LOTR movie-goers, which could happen, but dont count on it. I just think Turbine is run by a bunch of retards. Asherons Call was nice for its time, but they are going to ruin MEO. So i am VERY happy that there will be a HORIZONS. Even if they changed its design. Woopee doo, Horizons will still beat MEO by a long shot. |
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Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:25 am |
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Ozymandias
Leader of the Senate
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 319
Location: Otherland |
I once had high hopes for this game, not anymore. The screenshots are disappointing with their pale and depressing colour scheme - I prefer much more vivid colours. Also judging from the screenshots, I'd suggest a name change to Undeads R Us
I doubt this game will ever become a major player in the mmorpg world.
_________________
"There is no way around it. Correct is correct. I am correct, therefore I win."
Roqua
Disclaimer: I can not be held responsible for anything whatsoever as a result of you reading this post. |
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Thu Jun 19, 2003 4:50 pm |
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OotP_Sihn
Guest
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I don't know about anyone else, but It looks like each time they release some screenshots the graphics for the pc's and npc's gets better and better. What do you think?
http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=11180 |
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Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:21 am |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
I think Horizons is looking good, especially its variety in options. The graphics arent that bad. A lot better than shadowbane anyway. |
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Fri Jun 20, 2003 11:45 am |
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Dagda
Village Dweller
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 1
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Even though Artifact Entertainment got off to a rocky start I think they have a very good product headed our way. Yes, I wish they could have stuck alittle closer to their org. plan with the game but I also understand they were wanting to pack way to much into the product, we wouldn't have seen it for another 5 or 10 years.
For me the best part of Horizons is the craft skills. In no game that I have played to date has put half a thought into the trade skill system. David Bowman and the rest of the crafting team has put a tremendous effort into the trade skills to make them a rubust system with in the game. For once we, the players, will be able to go into a fantasy game and NOT have to fight to gain experence, we can act as support for those that wish to defend the realm and still be a viable portion of the population!
I do wish they would have more unique type races to pick from. I can half way understand why they droped the angels and demons as they were really focused on the org. game plan with the blood wars, but as it stands now they only have the basic archetypes that it seems all games start out with except with one exception and that would be the dragons. They is some talk of subjicated races with in the game that the players may be able to free and open them up to all the players on that server as player characters. Great idea and can't wait to see if thats the way it unfolds, but I would have really liked to see some of the unique types at the start of the game. |
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Fri Jul 04, 2003 2:22 pm |
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OotP_Sihn
Guest
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That you Dagda Moor? I agree with dagda, but look at it this way. By saving some of the races from slavery it adds a sense of accomplishment by allowing us to change the world we are a part of in a major way, not to mention by saving something new and exciting for down the road. All this I believe will lead to a longer life for horizon's as a whole thus allowing us to have a longer and hopefully more enjoyable game experience than some of the others are offering.
Just think, how much more different could the game be playing the character you have played for however long now that you can play a satyr or some other freed race. Just my 2 cents.
Proud AC Kcrew member... |
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Fri Jul 11, 2003 11:53 pm |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
Even though it should be a good game, im not buying this version. When the PvP (or RvR) version of Horizons comes out, thats when they will have my money. Until then, for me at least, Dragon Empires all the way.
edit -- spelling correction. |
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Mon Jul 14, 2003 6:07 am |
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Ammon777
Warrior for Heaven
Joined: 20 Apr 2002
Posts: 2011
Location: United States |
well, as it turns out, i got into Horizons beta, so i guess i will try it out after all...  it deserves a shot at least! |
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Sun Aug 03, 2003 9:15 pm |
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