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Average reviews - so it wasnt godlike after all
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RPGDot Forums > Oblivion - General

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Zakhal
Captain of the Guard
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Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 188
Average reviews - so it wasnt godlike after all
   

Almost all early reviews (there were many) gave oblivion superb scores and hyped it to be a gods grace falling from the sky (i.e gamespot superb 96% - *the* best role-playing games ever made.) ready to be consumed by hungry players.

Now though real reviews are piling up and they complain about bugs and game design problems:

quote:

Gamespy gives it 80%.
computergames.ro give it 84%, but Gameplay only gets 74% !!! <edit>Sorry wrote 94 earlier it is actaully 84</edit>

They write like this about the scaling. Only scaling here, they find lots of other things they dont like, like bugs and inconsistent physics and serious AI glitches and pc interface and more, but I keep this to scaling only to keep it short. I think we can drop that about the scaling whiners are a minority that doesn't understand anything. Its apparently starting to appear in more and more real reviews too, and not like a little sidenote, but as a large problem!
Of course this doesn't mean scaling is wrong and everyone should hate it, it just means that it really is a big problem to many players and nothing that should just be toned down and ignored.

Gamespy:

Along the same lines, sometimes the equations and effects that manipulate the game behind the scenes (which you can view in the form of stats, skill levels, and armor values) leap into the foreground to create strange logic. Oblivion constantly tailors the world to your progress, so you'll never run up against something you can't accomplish by putting in some effort, which means you'll never run into an area where you're "not supposed to go yet." On the other hand, you tend to miss out on the joys of preying upon the weak. Characters are incredibly resistant to cold-blooded murder, even when stabbed in the back with a poisoned blade, and you might find yourself wondering how many blows to the head with a claymore one imp could possibly take.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Computergames:

The biggest gripes I have with the game can be summarized in two notions: level scaling balancing and credibility.
First up, level (and loot) scaling. As you will discover during the game, and as “advertised” on the official forums (curiously, this little feature isn’t noted in the game manual) the world of Tamriel adapts to your character level. Meaning that the enemies will be replaced by more powerful ones as you level up (bears instead of wolves for instance) or they will just level up and get better equipment when you do as well. Erm, ok, so what’s the point in advancing my character then? Before I continue I have to stress the fact that the idea of level scaling the monsters is generally a good idea for a game this size, but in the case of Oblivion, the balancing is way off. This design decision made quite a stir on the official forums and caused a huge rift between Oblivion players, with one side saying it’s a good idea, the other claiming the contrary. The problem is that the level scaling can get coupled with some odd bugs, which can easily make your life miserable.
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.
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The same balancing issue with the level scaling system also created some embarrassing moments, when I couldn’t actually believe that they were happening. Situations in which me, Dragonheart, Champion of the Imperial Arena, the greatest fighter in history, having defeated the previous Grand Champion and all gladiators in-between, with a Light Raiment of Valor as armor, is almost killed by a wolf in the forest. This though happened when I was level 6. You wonder how I got to be Champion of the Arena at level 6? Well, let’s just say that the Arena is not all that it’s cranked up to be. It may sound funny at first, but trust me, it isn’t. And let’s say, for the sake of argument, that the monster level scaling wasn’t an issue. That it makes the game challenging long after you’re done with the main quest, which is true. But the same principle applies to the loot and equipment that you find or steal, which is scaled according to your level. You’ve defeated a mighty Minotaur? Very good, you can sell his weapon and armor without remorse, because it won’t be any better than yours. You managed to lockpick a “5 tumbler” lock, which rates Very Hard on the difficulty scale, while being level 2? Congratulations, you’ve found 20 septims and a carrot. Basically, even if you do manage to pull of an incredible feat in the game, like breaking a “5 tumbler” lockpick, you’ll never get something spectacular as a reward, or at least something that would justify the effort. So I then ask myself the grueling question: why do I play the game then? Why do I keep improving my character? Why do I explore the world, all the dungeons, catacombs and forts? For what? So that when I buy a new weapon or a set of armor, everyone else would automatically get something that’s equally good? To level up and see that all the enemies are suddenly just as good as I am?
Post Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:20 pm
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Danicek
The Old One
The Old One




Joined: 15 Dec 2001
Posts: 5922
Location: Czech Republic
   

Those are exceptions. Even now most not-so-early reviews continue to give it very high scores.

I think it will be one of best rated games ever (see, I don't say it will be best game, I say best rated). I guess it has to do (probably) something with its high quality :].

Nevermind, not single game in all the game history got very high ratings from all reviewers.
Post Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:26 pm
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Zakhal
Captain of the Guard
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Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 188
   

quote:
Originally posted by Danicek
Those are exceptions. Even now most not-so-early reviews continue to give it very high scores.



Its easy to give high score for a game that has good graphics with lots of gameplay. But if few (som big even) reviewers give it 80% or 74% then there more than likely is somthing wrong with the game that makes it only average. Point is that the lower scores count more than the high scores, especially if the high score givers are hyping the game as the "next best thing since sliced bread".

Also (imho) high quality == good production values does not equal bugs and game balance problems. I.E the arena thing (level scaling) is a pretty big balancing problem to slip through beta without been noticed. Unless its just a design failure.
Post Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:36 pm
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
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Joined: 10 Jan 2005
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I hate to admit it but I'm having some issues with Oblivion in regards to leveling. Instead of adding new creatures to fill in the gaps in challange amongst the weaker creatures they literally scale just about everything.

Morrowind was worse though. I remember trying to find a Golden Saint for hours and hours and then when I reached a certain level they started stepping out from behind every boulder.

Oh well. Take the good with the bad. Unfortunately I'm being eaten by lions on the road these days. I never had a problem with wolves but now at level 8 Bethesda saw fit to replace them with killer lions. I may mod the game to turn lions into turnips. Its really a downer to accomplish some grand quest and then become lion fodder in a random encounter
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Post Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:38 pm
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HoLoPo1nT
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Joined: 21 Jan 2006
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A highly anticipated title like Oblivion is bound to garner its fair share of both raves and rants.

I don't think I've ever played a CRPG that was perfect in exactly the way the dev's intended it to be when first released. In other words, they've all required patches to address things that slipped through the cracks during beta...or were possibly overlooked intentionally with the idea that they would be fixed in a future patch.

This holds true for the previous TES titles and Oblivion is no different here but I'm having a heck of a great time playing this game so far. IMHO it is the best CRPG on the market to date even with the bugs and balance issues.

Bethesda created a huge task for themselves with attempting to top Morrowind and the sheer volume of quality content that is working just fine in Oblivion shows that they're dedicated on making good with that intention.

In general, if I've hit an impasse in a quest for one reason or another, I go away and do something else because there is just so much to explore. I figure I can come back to what I've put on the back burner once the issue is fixed in a patch or when my character is powerful enough to properly handle the situation.

Considering how great this game is already, I'm more than willing to cut Bethesda some slack and give them time to fix the bugs that are inevitable with such mammoth undertakings.

In the meantime, I've got Oblivion Gates to close, Ayleid Ruins to explore, Guilds to rise up through the ranks in and a whole plethora of other things to do. This game is awesome!

Later,

HoLo
Post Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:13 pm
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Joeman
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Joined: 03 Jan 2004
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Ever since I beat arena at level3, I cannot take this game seriously anymore.
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Post Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:57 pm
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Dhruin
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Joined: 20 May 2002
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There are numerous, serious, valid complaints. On the other hand, there is some excellent content. Playing as a ranged assassin, I haven't done the arena or even started the main quest, so I've basically bypassed some of the obvious problems and an still enjoying it.

On the other hand, it takes a good 6-8 arrows to take down a wolf, which is frustrating. All up, the leveling system is poorly thought out and goes right down to the underlying fundamentals, in my opinion.

A score in the 70s to early 80s is easily justified. ComputerGames.ro has some good points, although he lets the review become a rant: he mentions the "excellent" quests in passing, for example, but doesn't flesh any of that out while he continues to hammer the scaling issue.
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Post Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:47 pm
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cptmaxon
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Joined: 19 Jun 2003
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I like the game although it does have a down side, and I did wonder how i managed to beat the arena at lvl 3(I thought I was just that good )
the AI sucks, I mean really sucks, if there are monster in a group and you fire a fireball at one, only that one will charge you.
I do like the new combat system, much better then morrowind much more controlled.
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Post Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:41 pm
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Danicek
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Joined: 15 Dec 2001
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Location: Czech Republic
   

@Zakhal

I understand your points. I think it is all about what you expect from reviews and from the final scores.

Personally I like the reviews that mention all bad things they find. It is also nice when they mention good things they find. But the most important thing for me is the subjective feeling of the game.
Naturally sometimes you like a game although it has many flaws and so you shouldn't like it :]. I prefer when final scores take this into account. After all this is the most important thing.
From reading enough such reviews, I can make much better conclusion about the game than from reading list of pros and cons resulting in some kind of math formula giving the final score.

This is only my personal opinion. And I haven't played the game enough to be able to say if I like it (I received it yesterday). Anyway my reply is not about if I like this game or not.
Post Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:06 am
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Phil5000
Keeper of the Gates
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Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 115
   

Oh dear this is all very very bad news. I've been looking forward to this game so much and for so long. I was disappointed with how it ran on my system, now it looks like I'll be disappointed with the game itself. I totally concur with those review slamming the scaling concept. I mean exactly... why bother levelling up and buying better stuff when the difficulty just goes up to compensate?! I've only just come out of the sewer and my first stop was Market District to buy some new gear. But buy the sound of it I might as well just stick with my short sword and leather armour.

I suppose they might change this in a patch but from what I've seen developers (in general) seem to have an attitude that can be summed up with "who cares what the gamers want. This is our game and we think it should be this way." I've always thought when in doubt give us options.

Well anyway I hear there're mods for the scaling issue. Does anyone know the most popular one and how does it change the game exactly? Does it just change monster difficulty or does it somehow change items too?
Post Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:52 am
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Danicek
The Old One
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Location: Czech Republic
   

Just on the topic of average reviews. Here is copy/paste from one of news from today's morning:

A truckload of new Oblivion reviews for the Xbox 360 are listed at the official site:

* Into Liquid Sky - 'A'
* TVG - 9/10
* Xbox Nerds - 9.5/10
* Deeko - 9.5/10
* Team Fremont - 9.8/10
* ToTheGame - 9/10


I don't think this is average :].
Post Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:03 am
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
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Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA
   

Bethesda's response to these criticisms will be download the mods.

Don't discount the potential of the mods guys. There are over 70 mods released already - and a few of them deal with the leveling system.

I like the concept of scaling monsters but I think it needs to be toned down - flushed out with a mixture of weaker and stronger creatures. I'll play unmodded until it drives me nuts though.

Of course if you have the XBox360....
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Post Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:30 pm
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Zakhal
Captain of the Guard
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Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 188
   

quote:
Originally posted by Danicek
Just on the topic of average reviews. Here is copy/paste from one of news from today's morning:

A truckload of new Oblivion reviews for the Xbox 360 are listed at the official site:

* Into Liquid Sky - 'A'
* TVG - 9/10
* Xbox Nerds - 9.5/10
* Deeko - 9.5/10
* Team Fremont - 9.8/10
* ToTheGame - 9/10


I don't think this is average :].


Id say that Oblivion is the first decent (RP) game that takes advantige of all xbox360 features, so of course they all rate it high. PC though has a merry lot of other RPGs that are good too, so the expected standard is higher than on the xbox360.

Imho oblivion needs mods to raise from averige to great. Its not a bad thing really, morrowind was exactly the same. Ill just wait until I get the mods I want and in mature versions. Until then I will continue to play through the entire elder scrolls series (currently in arena 63% finished).

Not to forget that I have entire baldurs gate, icewind dale and neverwinter nights sagas waiting to be played on the shelf too. So I can easily wait till oblivion is modded and expanded to perfectness. =)
Post Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:24 pm
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Carpathic
Eager Tradesman
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Joined: 12 Feb 2005
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario
   

Having not yet played Oblivion, despite a desperate desire to indulge, I have seen generally rave reviews...I say it again, I can't wait...
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Post Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:47 am
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ToddMcF2002
Leader of the Senate
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Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 317
Location: Boston MA
   

Well I've complained about Oblivion a bit - but errrr... I played it from 7PM to 4AM last night. That should tell you something
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Post Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:41 pm
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