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| Who would win a fight? |
| Gandalf |
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90% |
[ 18 ] |
| Dumbledor |
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10% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 20 |
Iron Man
Dazed and Confused
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 773
Location: Location Location |
A friend of mine (just for the record, he hates rpgs and anything like that), was going on about how "crap" lord of the rings is (im reading return of the king at the moment) but he reads Harrpy Potter. Humph, the words pot and kettle spring to mind. Anyway, there is only one way to decide which is better, who would win a fight? Gandalf (grey of white, it doesn't realy matter) or Albus Dumbledor?
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Thu Jun 26, 2003 7:07 pm |
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piln
High Emperor
Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 906
Location: Leeds, UK |
Well, I made a totally un-informed vote for mr G. I haven't read any of the Harry Potter books, seen the films or played the games, and I have no idea who Dumbledor is. But considering Gandalf beat up the balrog and... how did he put it... "smote his ruin on the mountainside" (?)... I rate his ass-kicking potential pretty highly.  |
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Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:20 pm |
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Iron Man
Dazed and Confused
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 773
Location: Location Location |
Dumbledor is the headmaster of Hogwarts school of Wizardry and Witchcraft (I think Val is one of the prefects ) To most of my mates, Gandalf is just "the man with the stick"
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Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:41 pm |
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Temptress
Purely Innocent
Joined: 05 Jul 2002
Posts: 793
Location: Back in the saddle in leather and chaps! |
*raises hand*
I have the books! Err, all of them actually.
My vote is for Mr. G!
For pure Job-related reasons. After all, Mr. D is a fine teacher and a wonderful wizard but still his job is to teach about good wizardry. Mr. G isn't a teacher. I mean, what is his job really? He's a powerful wizard but I think his job is kinda like a peacekeeper or a cop.
Your job tells a lot about a person.  |
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Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:54 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Gandalf's resume includes being an angel made flesh. I think it's hard to beat that. Though Gandalf is more of a cleric from D&D than a wizard.
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Thu Jun 26, 2003 9:06 pm |
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piln
High Emperor
Joined: 22 May 2003
Posts: 906
Location: Leeds, UK |
quote:
Originally posted by iron man likes asparagus
To most of my mates, Gandalf is just "the man with the stick"
Isn't that Bob Mortimer? :p |
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Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:08 pm |
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XeroX
The MasterCopy
Joined: 13 Dec 2001
Posts: 7125
Location: The Netherlands |
Who is Dumbledor. I haven't seen a second or read a letter in a book of Potter, i think i never will.
It just sound lame and stupid to me.
LOR is nice, i'm reading the book right now, in english of course. I hate translated stuff, some things are always lost in a translation
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Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:25 pm |
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Kayla
High Emperor
Joined: 26 Nov 2002
Posts: 2114
Location: Australia |
Harry Potter is a childs story, Lord of the Rings is a more adult fantasy. It's like comparing Dr Seuss with Tolstoy, there's no comparison.
Gandalf would win as he is one of the Istari and Dumbledore is just a wizard.
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Thu Jun 26, 2003 11:13 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
Hmm. Dumbledore would win. In the Lord of the Rings, Gandalf kills one goblin with something like, "an arc of lightning," (then the bear-man says that at least there is some saving grace to being a wizard) and the Balrog only died because it got hit with a sword quite a fair bit, to say nothing about the fact that Gandalf died in the process. It also seemed that Gandalf's entire order took a type of vow of poverty, which Saruman broke by accepting the keys to the Orthanic. Gandalf's power doesn't seem to be as materialistic as casting spells at things, but rather in the form wise advice and an aura about him. In LotR, wizards are also quite a bit less prevalent, and, if I recall correctly, there were: Radagast the Brown, Saruman the White, Gandalf the Grey, and two Blue wizards who travelled past Middle-Earth to the east. Their sole purpose was to fight the forces of evil, not as soldiers themselves, but as advice givers and 'heroes.' Also, they are forbidden from opening up their powers to the full extent, for some reason.
Dumbledore, however, is the headmaster of the most prestigious Wizarding School in the world, as it is told. He is not forbidden to collect personal wealth, and as such, he has many many forces at his disposal, some of which being: his immortal phoenix, his portrait collection which can get him information on any happenings in the world, his site to site teleportation portkeys, his school full of loyal teachers and students and ghosts, his own elite order of demon hunters, a forest filled with flying spectres, and whatever else the 150 year old uber-wizard of the school would have. He is also of a mythic fantasy world where wizards have definite spells, performed by actions and words, instead of intangible powers. Although he has taken the position of a teacher, it becomes apparent in the 5th book that he is capable of quite much more, perhaps his ability to beam from location to location with ease is indicative of his good um... Transfiguration skills and but for the legal restrictions on the curse of death, he would be able to fry poor Gandalf before he could charge him with his sword.
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Fri Jun 27, 2003 1:19 am |
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Rawis
Gorthaur
Joined: 01 Apr 2002
Posts: 1861
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Gandalf would win of course! Gandlaf isn't even human... I doubt Dumbledore would be able to kill him.  |
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Fri Jun 27, 2003 1:32 am |
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Hexy
High Emperor
Joined: 28 Jun 2002
Posts: 621
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First off, if you want to drag items into the comparison, Gandalf still has his powerful sword.
Second, Gandalf did NOT kill ONE goblin in Bilbo, it was more like a dozen, with ONE "spell".
Third, when he fought with the balrog, he still managed to survive a PRETTY long fall through the shaft, AND getting burned.
Furthermore, if you want to compare "connections", Gandalf is a friend/ally to kings (with armies), the powerful elves and other mystical creatures (ents and such). Plus he has his order of fellow wizards.
Also, he lives in a world with definite spells, performed with words/items.
And, honestly, Dubledore (who is nothing but a rip off of Gandalf anyway) needs to use "items" to put out an ordinary street light (beginning of H.P. 1).
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Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:49 am |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
This is really going against my better judgement, but I suppose this is an argument that needs arguing.
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Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:02 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
@Sauron - of course it does!
@Rest - Gandalf. Though the question is moot since I am sure they are best friends.
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Fri Jun 27, 2003 8:41 pm |
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Iron Man
Dazed and Confused
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 773
Location: Location Location |
Yes, evrr since they came joint first at the "longest beard" competition at the Prancing Pony
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Fri Jun 27, 2003 9:21 pm |
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sauron38
Rara Avis
Joined: 14 Jan 2002
Posts: 4396
Location: Winnipeg's Sanctum Sanctorum |
Let's start by examining some of each character.
Gandalf aka Mithrandir, Tharkûn, Incánus, and Olórin:
This is a drab and serious collection of paragraphs:
After a thousand years had passed in the Third Age of the Sun, an Elven-ship came out of the Western Sea and sailed to the Grey Havens. Upon that ship were five aged Men with long white beards and great cloaks. Each cloak was a different colour, and each Man wore a tall pointed hat, high black traveller's boots, and carried a long staff. These were the Istari, whom Men called Wizards; their hats and staffs were their signs of office. They were an order and a brotherhood sent to Middle-earth from the Undying Lands, for it was perceived by the great Powers of Arda that a great evil was growing in Mortal Lands. In the diminished World of Middle-earth, in the Third Age they were forbidden to come forth in power as Maiar. They were limited to the form of Men and the powers that might be found within the mortal World.
As a Maia in the Undying Lands he was ... accounted wisest of his people. At the time he resided in the gardens of Lórien, the Master of Visions and Dreams, and also went often to the house of Nienna the Weeper. Tutored by the Vala Lórien in the Gardens, Olórin's wisdom for many Ages grew greater still. Also, counselled by Nienna in her house, which looks out on the Walls of the Night, to his wisdom was added pity and endurance beyond hope.
Of all the Istari Gandalf is counted the greatest, for by his wisdom the free peoples of Middle-earth were guided to victory over the Dark Lord Sauron, who wished the enslave them. In this, Gandalf was aided by Narya, the Elven-ring of Fire, that Círdan, lord of the Grey Havens, gave him, for Narya had powers to make Men brave and resolute. By Gandalf's instigation, but by no direct part of his own, Smaug the Dragon was slain. In his presence, the battles of Five Armies, the Hornburg and Pelennor Fields were won. By Gandalf's hand alone the Balrog of Moria was destroyed. Yet his greatest deed of all was his discovery of the One Ring and his guiding of the Ringbearer to the place of its destruction. By this action the Ring was unmade, and Sauron and all his servants and all his kingdoms were brought to utter ruin. Gandalf's tasks upon Middle-earth was completed by this one act and so the Third Age ended with Gandalf's departure to the Undying Lands.'
Dumbledore, Albus
A fun collection of paragraphs, meant to satirize, and is perhaps to be taken ad hominem, too:
A much more humble rooted wizard by nature, one Albus Dumbledore makes first show of noteworthiness in that 'Albus' is Latin for "White" and 'Dumbledore' is Old English for "Bumblebee." Forget foolish marks of accent on letters, I'm quite happy with my Latin Script as it is. Albus was born with one older brother already living, who is to be called Aberforth. The only allusion to Aberforth comes in the 24th chapter of GF,
"My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No, he did not! He held his head high and went about his business as usual! Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been bravery ..."
This is all that is known about his family, and this is understandable, as two of the series have yet to been published, and one, the most recent, is still being combed through for the purposes of finding small hints and clues about anything of interest.
"He was tall, thin, and very old, judging by the silver of his hair and beard, which were both long enough to tuck into his belt. He was wearing long robes, a purple cloak that swept the ground, and high-heeled, buckled boots. His blue eyes were light, bright, and sparkling behind half-moon spectacles and his nose was very long and crooked, as though it had been broken at least twice." (PS1)
His life can be placed into a timeline:
c. 1840 born
c. 1851 enters Hogwarts, sorted into Gryffindor
c. 1858 leaves Hogwarts
c. 1940 Transfiguration teacher at Hogwarts
1942 Hagrid is expelled, but Dumbledore gives him the Gamekeeper position
1945 defeats the Dark Wizard Grindelwald
c. 1971 becomes headmaster of Hogwarts
1970s offered the position of Minister of Magic, declined
worked tirelessly against Voldemort
gives people second chances (e.g. Snape, Hagrid)
accepts people who others would reject (e.g. Lupin)
1981 participated in the Fidelius Charm for the Potters
arranged for the protection of Harry Potter with the Dursleys
1995 parts ways with Cornelius Fudge, who doesn't believe that Voldemort has regained his power, calls together the "old crowd," including Lupin, Mundungus Fletcher, Arabella Figg, the Weasleys, to work against Voldemort
1995- yet to be published OR I will not reveal it because of book 5 spoilers
In order to be accepted into Gryffindor, Albus must have satisfied the criteria, which although they remain generally the same, change in exact wording with each book & year,
"You might belong in Gryffindor,
Where dwell the brave at heart,
Their daring, nerve, and chivalry
Set Gryffindors apart;" (PS7)
"Bold Gryffindor, from wild moor,
...
By Gryffindor, the bravest were
Prized far beyond the rest;" (1994)
"Said Gryffindor, 'We'll teach all those
With brave deeds to their name,'
...
While the bravest and boldest
Went to daring Gryffindor." (OP11)
for the Sorting Hat cannot be deceived, and only the brave and true will enter through the Fat Lady on the wall.
He then graduated from the school with, as it says in (OP31 p.627) [bless my memory]
"'But I daresay the Ministry of Magic will track [Dumbledore] down soon enough.'
'I doubt it,' shouted tiny Professor Matchbanks, 'not if Dumbledore doesn't want to be found! I should know ... examined him personally in Transfiguration and Charms when he did NEWTs ... did things with a wand I'd never seen before.'"
the highest and most outstanding of honours, earning the respect and admiration of the hardest marking and most well experienced examiner in wizardom. (OP31)
Dumbledore then became the Transfiguration teacher at Hogwarts... Transfiguration, as some may not know is, "magic which changes one object into another. It is possible to change inanimate objects into animate ones and vice versa. Some Transfiguration spells alter a part of something, such as changing a person's ears from normal into rabbit ears." The current teacher, Minerva McGonagall, said this, "Transfiguration is some of the most complex and dangerous magic you will learn at Hogwarts. Anyone messing around in my class will leave and not come back. You have been warned." For those of you who know of Greek Mythology and whatnot, you will remember the tale of Circe, the enchantress who lived near Greek island of Aeaea, who was famous for turning lost sailors into pigs... her story can be found in Homer's Odyssey. As a side note, it was Odysseus's child with her, a Telegonus, who eventually put the hero into a deep sleep (with a poison tipped spear) from which he never returned in the 16th chapter of the chronicle. Because of its rich history, Transfiguration is a noble avenue of wizardry, and no doubt, Dumbledore only honed his skills in it further by teaching it.
Hagrid, a friend of Dumbledore's, was made to be the scapegoat back in the times of Tom Marvolo Riddle during the mystery concerning the death of a student. Although his wand was officially destroyed, Dumbledore granted him a pink umbrella which also serves as a less-than-legal wand. Dumbledore was wise to keep Hagrid in good favour, as the half-giant is immune to hostile spells cast on him, such as the 'Stunning Spell' (whose incantation, 'Stupefy' comes from Latin 'stupefacio,' 'to make senseless'). (OP31)
The events concerning Grindelwald, who is mentioned solely in passing (PS 6 & 13), are actually a bit of a mystery to readers. He was the first version of Voldemort, many sources suggest, and because of the date concerning his defeat, 1945, many suspect that there was supposed to be a connection between Nazi Germany's fall and Grindelwald's defeat. This, however, does not go so far as to say that Grindelwald was supposed to be the magical version of Hitler, but there is likely an underlying correlation. However, we may only guess at this point in time, as there are two more books yet to be published, either of which could remove all shadow and cloud of doubt from the issue.
Circa 1970, Dumbledore was offered the position of Minister for Magic, the highest position in the wizard government, and was, in addition to being greatly favoured, much more powerful than Cornelius Oswald Fudge, the person who took the position only after Dumbledore expressed no interest in pursuing a role in politics any further than his numerous positions, some of them being, Order of Merlin (First Class), Grand Sorcerer, Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot, Supreme Mugwump, and Member of the International Confederation of Wizards, to say nothing of being the new Headmaster of Hogwarts.
With valour, Albus conducted himself against the evil forces of Lord Voldemort despite odds, that of course speak of number of followers, upwards of twenty to one against him. (OP) He founded what is known as the Order of the Phoenix, located at Number 12 Grimmauld Place, in the house of escaped convict Sirius Black for the purpose of headquarters within an ancient mansion that was protected by the most ancient of protective spells set in place by, if not the enemy themselves, the enemy's grandparents. Only those whom Dumbledore told the location of the house personally could see it, which was a little feat compared to entering it. (OP4-5) This elite order of his aurors served him without question, for they knew that he was the most powerful of wizards, for Dumbledore was the only wizard whom Voldemort feared.
Throughout this time, his character developed in the areas of humanity. Those, such as Snape and Hagrid, who needed another opportunity to redeem themselves, as it were, were welcomed without question back to his mainstream. Snape, a former practitioner of evil and follower of Voldemort, who to this date in Potterism bears the mark of a Death Eater, was only allowed to return to productive society because of Dumbledore's pity for his former student. Much more depth is given to Snape's character in (OP), particularly around chapter 28, where many questions are answered by the Pensive. Hagrid, of course, as mentioned before, was the scapegoat for the events that killed Moaning Myrtle, because of his obsession with animals. Dumbledore continued to guide him throughout his career as groundskeeper, until he was also given the job of teacher Care of Magical Creatures. Lupin, a member of Dumbledore's Order of the Phoenix, however, is a special case. About 35 at the time of the books, his discerning character trait is that he is a werewolf, something that would not be allowed to teach, or for that matter, exist anywhere else. It is not until he is ratted out by Servius Snape (for reasons explained in (OP28)) that he is forced to stop his teaching and return to being a full time member of the Order. It can be seen from his interactions with these three characters that Dumbledore, in addition to being high and mighty, is in fact a very compassionate character.
In 1981, Dumbledore took part in what is known as the Fidelius Charm, one of the most complex and powerful charms that exist in Dumbledore's world - it's purpose, to anyone who is literate, is to protect information, in this case, the whereabouts of Lily, James, and Harry Potter, by placing the information into the hands of a single person, who alone can divulge the information that is protected. However, the charm was broken, when the single person they trusted, that is, their secret keeper, betrayed them, and they were horribly killed. The reason why he protected them is told in (OP37).
Following the betrayal and consequent death of Harry's parents and the banishing of Voldemort, Dumbledore arranged for his aunt to care for him until he would be able to go to Hogwarts to be under the Professor's protection. He was placed in protection by his aunt for a very specific reason, which again is discussed near the end of (OP) in chapter 37.
[#5 spoiler]
In the beginning of book 5, OP, Dumbledore is seen to sever links with the Ministry because they do not believe in the reappearance of Voldemort. Dumbledore flagrantly disregards the Ministry's advice and considers the single greatest entity of government beneath him. In book 5, he recalls his own army back into action and lets Potter set up a club with the sole purpose of learning how to fight other wizards. When he is officially removed from his position at Hogwarts, he duels four ministry wizards, including Fudge himself, and hexes all of them before they could hex him back and disappears away to his command centre from a place you cannot teleport into or out of. (OP27) He is then found to be in struggle with a dozen Death Eaters, all of whom, save one who fled, he managed to collect into one group and bind together with a single motion of the wand. Later, we find Dumbledore locked in heated combat with Voldemort, "as though he had not a fear in the world." (OP36) Throughout the combat, Dumbledore did not need to rely on clumsy incantations, when instead, he merely waved his wand, which made action upon his thoughts. The combat concluded with Dumbledore an obvious victor when he was swarmed by dozens of Ministry aurors but in the face of further peril, proceeded to persuade their leader to meet to his demands to be reinstated as Headmaster.
[/spoiler]
Now that I have finished my introduction to the two opponents, I can now shift my attentions as to why one is superior to the other. More is to follow.
It should be noted that when duelling the two on the most sacred of fighting sites, www.googlefight.com
Harry Potter v. Lord of the Rings
Winner: Harry Potter by 700,000 results
Gandalf the Grey OR White v. Dumbledore
Winner: Dumbledore by 80,000 results
Richard Harris [requiescat in pace] v. Ian McKellen
Winner: Richard Harris by 265,000 results.
@iron man likes asparagus
Dumbledore's beard is, "long enough to tuck into his belt"
while Gandalf's is, "his long white beard hung down below his waist"
Sure. They tied on that one. 
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Fri Jun 27, 2003 11:38 pm |
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