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TheRaven
Village Leader
Joined: 21 Jun 2002
Posts: 94
Location: Germany |
| multiclass and attacks per round |
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how many attacks and how high attack bonuses does a multiclass character get...
just the best of its both classes or combined? and which level is applied?
for example:
fighter lvl 10 : +10/+5 lvl 20: +20/+10/+15/+5
rogue lvl 10: +7/+2 lvl 20: +15/+10/+5
and lvl 10 fighter/ lvl 10 rouge would have....?? |
Wed Jul 17, 2002 6:42 am |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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+17/+12/+7/+2
Base attack adds directly between all classes, as do saving throws and hit points.
Basically you're not a level 10/10 fighter/thief. You're a level 20 fighter/thief as if it were a single class which has the features of both rogues and fighters (though specializes in neither).
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Wed Jul 17, 2002 12:48 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
But what happens if your classes don't have the same "type" of multiple attacks.
For example, imagine you multiclass a monk with a fighter. Monk is +10/+7/+4/+1 at level 10 while the fighter is +10/+5 (I don't recall the actual numbers on the monk at level 10, but I know that his attacks are at -3 difference). So how would you combine the two at level 20?
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 1:59 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
quote:
Originally posted by MoonDragon
But what happens if your classes don't have the same "type" of multiple attacks.
For example, imagine you multiclass a monk with a fighter. Monk is +10/+7/+4/+1 at level 10 while the fighter is +10/+5 (I don't recall the actual numbers on the monk at level 10, but I know that his attacks are at -3 difference). So how would you combine the two at level 20?
Good question! Xen? Can you shed some light on this?
I would guess the monk's attack are unarmed. What would the monk get with a weapon? My *guess* is the same +10/5, so you should have the option of +20/15/10/5 with weapons or the monks special attack at +10/7/4/1. BUT THIS IS ONLY A GUESS!
Where I was at home w/ access to manual et al I could answer in a flash!
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 3:43 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Oh, sure... ask a question that gets argued about at least twice a week on the official D&D Forums... 
I don't know why though... the answer is right in the Players Handbook under 'multi-classing'. People on the official boards should "RTFM"  Lintra is pretty much right on, though.
A Monk's unarmed bonus is special... he only gets that bonus unarmed. Slap a weapon in his hand like a greatsword and you'll see his attack drop back to 'normal' base 5 attack patterns.
In other words... your monk with the 10/7/3/1 (I know that's not right, but it's irrelevant at this moment in time) has a REAL base attack of +10/+5. (Which is how I know it's not right without opening my PHB, as Monks don't have a +1 per level base attack. This monk would probably be level 13 or so).
So in this 'strictly theoretical' example, the monk/fighter would have +20/+15/+10/+5. Now here's were it gets tricky. He only gets to apply his monk bonuses if he wants to attack unarmed... OR he can use his total base attack, whichever he prefers. IE: He can either choose to attack using +10/+7/+3/+1 or he can use the +20/+15/+10/+5. Obviously in this example he's going to use the second one... but if you're a much higher level monk than you are a fighter or whatever... you may get four attacks use the second method and only two (at a slightly higher attack bonus) using the other. In which case going for the four might do better for you.
I'll go get my players handbook and post the real numbers for a level 10/10 fighter/monk. It will probably help clear up the difference...
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=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 4:51 pm |
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Lintra
Elf Friend
Joined: 23 Apr 2002
Posts: 9448
Location: Bermuda, the triangle place with SANDY BEACHES |
AHA! So was correct about the monks attack applying only to unarmed attacks. I feel much better now.
Thanks.
PS - I have never played or DM'd a monk in 3ed so I am a little rusty on the rules.
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 4:54 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Round 2
Ok... as I said, that monk isn't level 10. He's level 14. Which works fine... I'll break it down for a 10/10 fighter/monk and a 6/14 fighter monk. You mightl see that mysterious 'when to choose' thing I alluded to.
Ok: 10/10
Fighter: +10/+5
Monk: +7/+2 armed or +7/+3/+1 unarmed
Total: +17/+12/+7/+2 armed
unarmed he could use +17/+12/+7/+2 OR +7/+3/+1
Hard decision.
Number 2: 6/15
Fighter: +6/+1
Monk: +10/+5 armed or +10/7/4/1 unarmed
Total: +16/11/6/1 armed
unarmed he could use that set, or +10/7/4/1. Once again... wow. Hard choice.
Being a fighter in there makes you... well... better at fighting. Mostly because you pass that covetted +16 base attack, for the always critical FOURTH ATTACK... which is what seperates fighters and monks from the rest of the universe.
Level 20 fighter: +20/15/10/5 = four attacks
Level 20 monk: + 15/10/5 = 3 attack armed. Alas! no fourth! However UNARMED +15/12/9/6/3. FIVE attacks... doing a whopping 1d20 per hit! AIEEE!!!! throw improved critical in there for your fist and... stuff dies.
A level 18 monk/2 fighter would have this:
Armed: 15/10/5
unarmed: 15/10/5 or 15/12/9/6/3
Three attacks or five attacks? AH HAH! I found an example where it's better to use the monk unarmed! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
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=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 5:04 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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(the lesson here, boys and girls, is unless you're playing a monk who strays from his path... don't multiclass the monk. In pen and paper, actually, you can't go back.)
Although... if you don't mind missing out on such powers as: Timeless body (immune to aging penalties), Tounge of the Sun and Moon (speak any language), Slow fall (any distance) (fall any distance and not take damage as long as there was stuff to grab at on the way down. Ie: jump into the grand canyon and take no falling damage as long as you stays within arms reach of the canyon wall), Empty body (the ability to go ethereal), and Pefect Self (damage reduction 20/+1, immune to charms, hold person, etc). You can get another measly +1 to hit over a 20th level monk by being level 16/4 monk/fighter and still do the d20 damage per punch. That, boys and girls, is called min/maxing.
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
=Member of the Nonflamers Guild=
=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 5:12 pm |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
In NWN, using kamas counts as fighting unarmed. Except all those nice gloves with to hit bonuses don't work if you use kamas.
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Thu Jul 18, 2002 10:06 pm |
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EverythingXen
Arch-villain
Joined: 01 Feb 2002
Posts: 4342
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Yes, some of the weapons on the monk list use unarmed. Kama, nunchuku, kukri.... I think only kama is in the game, though.
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Estuans interius, Ira vehementi
"The old world dies and with it the old ways. We will rebuild it as it should be, MUST be... Immortal!"
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=Worshipper of the Written Word= |
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:44 am |
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MoonDragon
High Emperor
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 1254
Location: Waterloo, Canada |
Kukris (the curved daggers, right?) are in the game and I've found some wickedly awsome ones by now. Made me wanna reroll as a Rogue only so I can use those . But they are not on the Monk's list of unarmed weapons. Only Kamas are.
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Fri Jul 19, 2002 3:46 pm |
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ffbj
High Emperor
Joined: 05 Feb 2002
Posts: 489
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That is the best way to play it, but it's not so cut and dried it's situational.
At present my monk has these weapons available to him: (8th/monk 4th/ranger).
Light Crossbow +3
Urthgart ceremonial Twobladed sword +1 (keen/improved critical)
Shirukens 6 types.
Sling +5 (magic bullets)
Kamas (2) +1/+2 acid
Cold Iron Sword +1 Kurkuri (named): dual wield weapons.
Flaming Halberd +1 fire
Yes, it's extreme. But he also has weapon finesse/ambidexterity. In a straight up fight he would loose to the 12th level monk. But he is ready for
just about anything. Opponents with certain immunities don't stop him. |
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Wed Jul 31, 2002 3:35 am |
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