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Inauro
Village Dweller
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 9
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| WoW: GLBT Discrimination? @ Boing Boing |
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<a href="http://www.boingboing.net" target="_blank">Boing Boing</a> and <a href="http://www.innewsweekly.com" target="_blank">In Newsweekly</a> are covering Blizzard's policy decision on GLBT World of Warcraft guilds advertising themselves as such. Here's a snippet from the Boing Boing post:<blockquote><em>Blizzard, the company that runs the massively popular online multiplayer World of Warcraft game, has banned the practice of gay/lesbian/bi/trans players mentioning their sexuality in their guild-descriptions.
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<br>Gameplay in World of Warcraft (WoW) hinges on cooperation and guilds; many missions require several players to complete. The game, then, focuses on intense social interaction, and has benefitted tremendously from players who move large parts of their social lives to the game.
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<br>But players who have advertised their guilds as "GBLT-friendly" have lately been warned off by Blizzard moderators, who cite a rule against sexual discrimination in censoring the players. When pressed for explanations, they offer the genuinely bizarre excuse that if queer players are allowed to tell other players about their sexual orientation, that it might arouse discriminatory or unkind remarks from those players, and that would violate the anti-discrimination rules of the game.</em></blockquote><a href="http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/27/world_of_warcraft_do.html" target="_blank">More...</a><br><br>And here's a sample from the In Newsweekly article:<blockquote><em>Sara Andrews thought it was a big misunderstanding when she received an e-mail from a game master in Blizzard Entertainment's popular online role playing game "World of Warcraft" citing her for "Harassment - Sexual Orientation."
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<br>Andrews had posted that she was recruiting for a "GLBT friendly" guild in a general chat channel within the game.
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<br>Believing that her notice had been accidentally flagged, she e-mailed Blizzard to correct the problem. Blizzard, to Andrews' surprise, upheld the decision.
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<br>Other gay guilds have been alerted and are planning to request clarification on the policy from Blizzard.
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<br>Blizzard's policy on "Harassment - Sexual Orientation," which is set forth in the games' "Terms of Use" and cited in the e-mail to Andrews reads, "This category includes both clear and masked language which insultingly refers to any aspect of sexual orientation pertaining to themselves or other players."
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<br>A series of e-mails back and forth concerning the incident, seems to make it clear that Blizzard may be inadvertently using a policy meant to protect GLBT people as a way to discriminate against them.</em></blockquote><a href="http://www.innewsweekly.com/innews/?class_code=Ga&article_code=1172" target="_blank">More...</a> |
Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:18 am |
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methusala
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 281
Location: Odinwald |
What?. You can have sex in WoW now?Great! Where do I go? Undercity I hope cause I really like the atmosphere.Leave the sex at the door and play the game.The first dude that comes up to me with a penis on his shirt and asks me to join his guild,I`ll kill. |
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Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:22 am |
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Darien
Guest
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I have yet to see a guild advertising themselves for being a heterosexuals' guild, and can therefore only guess at the accusations of discrimination this would elicit.
These kinds of guilds are wrong whichever way it gets turned around, and I agree with the above poster: sex should be left at the doorstep.
Besides, this game is played by kids of all ages, amongs the adults, and for christs sake, what are they doing roleplaying their sexuality in it? This is not the kind of 'social contact' parents would want to see in the game their kids play all the time, and Blizzard is just protecting their own interests if they prohibit this kind of behaviour. |
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Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:32 am |
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Kalia
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Arizona |
The other thing to keep in mind:
Gaming worlds are not the greater society. They belong to the game owners and are not subject to the whims of the world. Think dictatorship.We, as players ont THEIR servers, are not "guaranteed" the rights of free speech, free expression, blah blah blah. The owners have the right to decide what they deem is appropriate or not and whether they'll let those flagrantly opposing their opinions continue to use their server space.
I agree with Blizzard on this one: One's sexual orientation has no business being in the game any moreso than one's racial orientation, etc. They, unlike those of us living in RL, don't have to 'play nice' and be all fuzzy and accepting of things like this. That's the beauty of the EULA.
The only place I can see Blizzard getting into virtual hot water is if they let "girl" guilds continue to advertise themselves as such. Similar to the exclusionary practices of a 'gay' guild, 'girl' guilds would be leaving out members of the opposite sex.
Still...it's Blizzard's game and they can and will do with it as they see fit. Proportionately, the gay community is a small one and Blizzard is already raking it in hand over fist so I doubt they'd miss them much.  |
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Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:17 pm |
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roqua1
Guest
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I just don't see why this is a big deal. Why have guilds that are exclusive or friendly to anything from out of Azeroth. Should their be Black-friendly guilds? Isn't that saying guilds that aren't black-friendly are black hostile? I don't even believe in having Canadian guilds? Why add a nationalistic aspect into the game that already has it through in game roleplaying content. I can see were language guilds come from, like french speaking guilds, since that has a huge impact on communication. I can even see time-zones. But why add stupid RL nonsense into a game that is suppposed to be an escape from RL.
And if their were any guilds just for straight folk no guys could join since almost every guy is a queer.
Could i join a guild that is freindly to pedephiles? Or rapists? Why not? Thats my sexual choice? Why can't i bring it up in an mmorpg?
When you play wow you should leave your RL social agenda at the door. |
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Sat Jan 28, 2006 2:20 pm |
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Kalia
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Arizona |
AMEN, Roqua! |
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Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:03 pm |
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Shimbatha
Village Leader
Joined: 15 Feb 2002
Posts: 78
Location: Jersey Shore |
Well, isn't WoW a "Role Playing Game"? mmo-RPG?? So, if it is a "role palying game", then that means you can play roles, right?
So what if someone wants to play a Gay Dwarf? Or a Lesbian Elf? I'm not being funny, I'm quite serious. I know that these people are G/L/B/T in real life and NOT in the game...but what if there character is also RP'ed to be gay? I played with a thief in NWN who was a cross dresser. He even hacked his character to have a male face with a female body and clothes. Very funny.
Another thing, I can understand why they would want this. I mean, what's different from someone wanting their guild to understand their sexuality from someone wanting their guildmates to understand their love of PvP?
Everyone wnats to join a group that shares their same play style, or beliefs. Heck, I once started a guild in Diablo 1 that was meant to be for old folks who hate PK'ing and were totally legit. We were called wussies, but we didn't care.
They just want to be in a guild where they feel comfortable because everyone thinks like they do.
What's wrong with that? |
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Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:57 am |
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Guest
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Shimbata, why is it not allowed to sell pornography to kids below the age of 18 in the US? My point is: you can not compare expressions of sexuality with someone expressing a love of PvP. When a guild based to some degree on sexual orientation is created, sex is bound to be a topic of discussion in guild chat. Now children below the age of 10 play WoW, and maybe I am really old fashioned here, but I think it should be their parents, or their school, that explain sexuality to them, not some random people they meet in a computer game.
Also, your argumentation would allow people of any common opinion to form guilds. How about the previously mentioned pedophiles? Or radical islamists? |
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Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:52 am |
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Lord_Brownie
High Emperor
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Posts: 575
Location: Unfashionable arm of the spiral galaxy |
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous
Smaybe I am really old fashioned here, but I think it should be their parents, or their school, that explain sexuality to them, not some random people they meet in a computer game.
Then thier parents need to be there raising them and not some video game chat room. So far, I have yet to make a decide which side of this issue I am on, but the first thing I must admit to is that if you refuse to parent your child, then don't get mad when others do parent them. The old military saying: "Lead, follow, or get out of the way."
Pedophiles and radical Islamists (or any radicalist from any religion for that matter) all involve something that is illegal; child abuse for the pedophiles and implied voilience with radical Islamists. Being gay is not illegal in the U.S., and right now I dont see how you can discrimate agianst them and not the role-playing guilds or the "I love to read" guild or "50 and hate youngins" guild. If WoW wants my support on this issue they have to take a stand against the "Singles" guilds, and the "Young and Hot Kiddies Who talk trash in open chat" guilds. If WoW wants support on this they need to show that it is nt about 'gay' but about the game, and by singling out of one group along the lines of harassment and no others they have opened the door for critics.
LB |
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Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:43 am |
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niteshade
Keeper of the Gates
Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 100
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Well I think it's alot different then a "love to read guild". Perhaps better examples would be a heterosexual guild, a "no virgins" guild, or any other guild based on sexual actions and preferences. I can't blame Blizzard for wanting to discourage these things, especially given that young people do play these games. Proper parenting is not an issue here, it has to do with the audience you are trying to remain apropriater to. Quite reasonably, Blizzard does not want to create an environment where proper parenting would involve forbidding your 10 year old from playing at all. |
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Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:37 pm |
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xSamhainx
Paws of Doom
Joined: 11 Sep 2002
Posts: 2192
Location: San Diego |
good Lord, doesnt this shite ever freakin' end??
Gay this, gay that, Im so absolutely sick and tired of it. Keep it to your damn selves already I dont care what you do behind closed doors, it's noones business. Here's your award for liking sex with other men. Ok, now here's your award for liking sex with other women. Oh yeah, and here's your award for being a guy who likes wearing Mommy's things. Can you move on with your lives now? Can we all?
These are the same type of people that on one hand "just want to be like everyone else", yet on the other cant stop doing all they can to segregate themselves and point out their difference. Reminds me of the race hustlers in a way, urging us all to be "colorblind" and treat everyone the same, yet I'll be damned if they arent the first ones to point out and highlight someone's race.
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“Then away out in the woods I heard that kind of a sound that a ghost makes when it wants to tell about something that's on its mind and can't make itself understood, and so can't rest easy in its grave, and has to go about that way every night grieving.”-Mark Twain |
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Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:47 pm |
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Kalia
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 30
Location: Arizona |
*Takes off RPGDot.com staff hat, puts on personal hat*
In my post, I in no way insinuated that gays/lesbians/transgenders should not have their own gaming groups with whom to play. What I said, and I think that what Blizzard is trying to enforce, is that it doesn't belong in the game with in game advertising, in game "recruitment" FOCUSING on the issue, etc. There are plenty of ways for these types of guilds to get their messages out and collect the members they want in their group. They can have all the agenda blaring discussions they want OUTSIDE of the game.
I don't begrudge people wanting to play in "like-minded" groups. We all do it to one degree or another. However, it doesn't belong in the game itself. It's not just the gay guild group that I feel this way about. I'd say the same thing about the Republican guild, the PETA guild, the Rottweiler Lover's guild or any other guild with a political agenda that they're trying to bring into the game. Language based groups are the only exception I can think of since being able to communicate to complete quests is an integral part of gameplay. One's sexual orientation or political bent is not.
And to the person who brought up the issue of homosexuality's legalness/illegalness in the United States: Blizzard's servers might reside in the US (and other countries where it's probably not illegal either) but PRIVATE gaming servers using PRIVATELY created and marketed software are not bound by the same laws of the land! Blizzard doesn't owe anyone the "right" to free speech, the "right" to assembly, the "right" to form these types of groups. It's their game and they get to make the rules. The term benevolent dictatorship applies here. As I said earlier: Blizzard doesn't have to be all fluffy and nice and ambiguous in the way they run their game.
The only recourse people have is to not play the game but, frankly, the number of people who might leave over an issue like this is minuscule. I can guarantee you that a company like Blizzard with its "out there" visibility, thought of a bunch of different scenarios surrounding their decision to pursue this issue. I'm sure they are quite comfortable with what's happened. Truth be told, I doubt Blizzard is losing any sleep.
And, come on, WoW is not a role playing game any moreso than any MMORPG out there. Saying that some guy/gal wants to "roleplay" a gay/lesbian/transgender character is really stretching the reasons why such groups should be allowed to exist IN GAME. (Note that I didn't say they shouldn't exist...just not in game)
And, yeah, the issue is very tiresome.
QFT:
quote:
These are the same type of people that on one hand "just want to be like everyone else", yet on the other cant stop doing all they can to segregate themselves and point out their difference.
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Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:15 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
The question is why? Why advertise that you are gay friendly? Would advertising being black freindly be allowed by blizzard? Or Christian friendly? Or muslim friendly? Or Fat friendly? No.
Does that opens the door to being [group] only? Does it put money in blizzards pocket? Does it make the game better? or worse?
The fact is all groups must be gay friendly, and white friendly, and black friendly, and Christian, and Muslim friendly. Thats in the rules. You cannot kick someone out of a guild for being a queer.
In my opinion this is a bunch of morons trying to make noise. None of them are probably even gay. Just idiots. Or imostly diots and some gay-idiots mixed together. Making noise because they can. Bunch of rich crackers with no jobs, going to school on mommy and daddy's dime, and have time for nonsense like this. People that work don't have time to work, play a mmorpg, and force their social agendas into those mmorpgs.
Blizzard isn't anti-gay, they are anti-noise and anti-drama. They want your money in exchange for a release from reality. They don't want any group making noise against them. They want everyone to shut up and play nice and keep forking over the cash. This isn't an evil gay plot. This is stupid gay nonsense.
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Vegitarian is the Indian word for lousey hunter. |
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Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:33 am |
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Dhruin
Stranger In A Strange Land
Joined: 20 May 2002
Posts: 1825
Location: Sydney, Australia |
That's not quite right. There are most definitely Christian-friendly groups...being the anti-social SOB I am, I've not noticed black or fat groups -- but I would be surprised if some or all of these don't exist.
For those tired of the issue, you do realise Blizzard raised it, right? Do you see problems in City of Heroes, EverQuest, Lineage...? Isn't it also a little disingenuous to contribute to discussion on the issue but then complain you are sick of it? 
For the parents of the 10yo -- deal with it or get 'em off. When you allow your child to play an open game with thousands of other players of every age and background, you automatically cede control of what your child is exposed to.
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Editor @ RPGDot |
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Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:07 am |
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methusala
Tempered Warlord
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 281
Location: Odinwald |
Blizzard raised it because there are a billion people,all kinds,playing the game.Those others have like about a 150 or so I think.I may be wrong with the numbers but I think you know what I mean.Blizzard is going to be confronted with problems the others only drean they could have. |
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Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:58 am |
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