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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by MageofFire
Me? Oh. . . Well, I try. 
No, not you!
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:36 am |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Oh. . . ok. 
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OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:41 am |
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Dwango
Head Merchant
Joined: 06 May 2002
Posts: 68
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quote:
Originally posted by MageofFire
@Arhiel-Me too. Gothic is an RPG with action elements, Diablo is an action game with RPG elements.
I bet Marketing Gurus would love the second label, but avoid the first like the plague.
I just wonder if Lionheart would have done that? Which label would they have used. 
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Ha, Ha, Ha.... Oh, you were SERIOUS?
-Dwango |
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 4:37 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
Lets say we are all playing a pen and paper game and when it's my turn in combat the DM hands me a Rubix Cube instead of dice and says, "If you solve this in less than 3 minutes you hit the enemy, if not you miss."
Is that a role playing game? All I need to privide a character in a RPG is personality. My own strength, relflexes, looks, gender, sexual oreintation, running speed, clicking ability, income, Rubix Cube solving time, or cooking skill should have nothing what-so-ever to do with my character being able to hit an enemy in combat.
I am not making up facts. I really wish you guys would think about this for a second, I'm saying 2 + 2 is 4 and you guys are saying it doesn't have to be 4. |
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:34 pm |
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Jung
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 411
Location: Texas |
quote:
Originally posted by Roqua
Lets say we are all playing a pen and paper game and when it's my turn in combat the DM hands me a Rubix Cube instead of dice and says, "If you solve this in less than 3 minutes you hit the enemy, if not you miss."
Is that a role playing game? All I need to privide a character in a RPG is personality. My own strength, relflexes, looks, gender, sexual oreintation, running speed, clicking ability, income, Rubix Cube solving time, or cooking skill should have nothing what-so-ever to do with my character being able to hit an enemy in combat.
I am not making up facts. I really wish you guys would think about this for a second, I'm saying 2 + 2 is 4 and you guys are saying it doesn't have to be 4.
What I am saying is that how you determine whether or not you hit does not determine the RPGness of a game. The fact that you are playing a character in a fictitious story is what makes it roleplaying, not the mechanics of determining whether you can hit or not. If it makes it more fun to determine the outcome via Rubic's Cube, then why not? If your character were colorblind, you might have to solve wearing dark glasses 
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"You two are a regular ol' Three Musketeers." |
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:48 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
All right, I give up. 2 +2= FUN!!!!! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
"The fact that you are playing a character in a fictitious story is what makes it roleplaying, not the mechanics of determining whether you can hit or not."
That is almost every game I can think of.
"If it makes it more fun to determine the outcome via Rubics Cube, then why not? If your character were colorblind, you might have to solve wearing dark glasses"
I agree—why not? I'm not saying don't do it, or that its not fun or exciting, I'm saying its not an RPG.
Facts can be fun, giving us fun facts. Fun can be factual, like reading a game manual and learning the game rules. But just because a fact isn't fun doesn't mean it isn't a fact.
I will concede the argument to you and say anything fun can be called an RPG if you will concede one thing to me. I just want the R taken out.
(p.s. I just reread through this post for spelling errors and it sounded kind of angry, I am not angry and I don’t want Jung to think I am. I refuse to use emoticons though, so please don’t think I am angry. I like good debates.) |
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:36 pm |
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Jung
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 411
Location: Texas |
quote:
Originally posted by Roqua
That is almost every game I can think of.
Well, I wasn't saying that playing a character is the only thing that constitutes an RPG, but it is the main thing. True, you play a character in FPS and adventure games, but you are not given much choice in how to proceed through the story or what kind of weapons to specialize in. In most RPGs, you can play any character you want, as long as it's a character that fights monsters and runs errands
quote:
I agree—why not? I'm not saying don't do it, or that its not fun or exciting, I'm saying its not an RPG.
I think your definition is rather narrow and archaic. I understand your definition, but when it was coined, it wasn't technically possible to control a fully rendered 3D character in real time.
quote:
Facts can be fun, giving us fun facts. Fun can be factual, like reading a game manual and learning the game rules. But just because a fact isn't fun doesn't mean it isn't a fact.
The fact is that definitions are made to be redefined.
quote:
I will concede the argument to you and say anything fun can be called an RPG if you will concede one thing to me. I just want the R taken out.
I will concede that you are putting words in my mouth. Being fun is crucial to any game, but a specific combat mode is not crucial to being an RPG.
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"You two are a regular ol' Three Musketeers." |
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:31 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
OK, how about we try this: Let's start listing off elements that make an RPG. I'll start with one: A free-roam environment.
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OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:17 pm |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
This was done in the other thread. And they´re still 12 or so pages ahead of you.
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Webmaster GothicDot |
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:09 pm |
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Jung
Most Exalted Highlord
Joined: 19 Jun 2002
Posts: 411
Location: Texas |
I will not go into what makes an RPG here if it is already been beaten dead elsewhere. I will say that, for me, having direct control of my character's combat brings me closer to the game. ...more like a virtual reality, and less like a game of chance.
EDIT (qualify that with an if it is done like gothic, not like diablo et al)
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"You two are a regular ol' Three Musketeers." |
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:37 pm |
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Ariel
Harmonious Angel
Joined: 21 Jul 2001
Posts: 432
Location: Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by Roqua
Lets say we are all playing a pen and paper game and when it's my turn in combat the DM hands me a Rubix Cube instead of dice and says, "If you solve this in less than 3 minutes you hit the enemy, if not you miss."
Is that a role playing game? All I need to privide a character in a RPG is personality.
I beg to differ, and I don't think P&P games are the ultimate example of role playing either. What about live action role playing games? Would you say they aren't RPGs either?
MageofFire: Have a look here: Some RPG elements. Required reading. (And it was not even finished, unfortunately)
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“Through the sounds of falling rain, through the clouds of bitter times
I see the pure grace of your smile, in dreams of the warmth in your eyes” - Tim North |
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:46 pm |
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MageofFire
Griller of Molerats
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Monastery of Innos |
Okay, I wasn't aware that my idea had already been tried in another topic. I apologize. 
_________________
OMG! WTF?! MONKEYS!!!!
=Member of numerous usergroups=
=Active in none of them=
Mediocreties, I absolve you! |
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:16 pm |
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Roqua
High Emperor
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 897
Location: rump |
lets all agree to disagree.
p.s---I'm really right though. |
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Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:43 am |
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Korplem
Swashbuckler
Joined: 23 Dec 2002
Posts: 853
Location: Pearl Harbor, HI |
*sigh*
yeah, Roqua, you ARE right...
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If soot stains your tunic, dye it black. This is vengeance.
-The Prince of Nothing |
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Thu Oct 30, 2003 2:50 am |
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Gorath
Mostly Harmless
Joined: 03 Sep 2001
Posts: 6327
Location: NRW, Germany |
quote:
Originally posted by MageofFire
Okay, I wasn't aware that my idea had already been tried in another topic. I apologize.
No need to apologize.  Nobody says you can´t revive the discussion in the other thread.
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Webmaster GothicDot |
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Thu Oct 30, 2003 6:22 am |
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