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Kiff
Protector of the Realm
Joined: 27 Oct 2002
Posts: 257
Location: Indiana |
| What should the MMO genre leave behind? |
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As new games come out and we all have our hopes up, we have discussed what we would like to see in the future of these games, but what about what needs to be left behind?  What does the genre need to leave behind and move away from? Does the genre need to stop with the experience loss on death? Stop with the leveling system? Stop with the skill system? What are some of the worst aspects of your favorite MMORPG’s? Stop with the decline in penalties upon death? Stop with the buggy releases? (Well of course)
I would like to see the decrease of penalty upon death, left behind. Death should be a scary thing, but not a loss of experience. 
I would also like to see loss of experience upon death stopped. I think if I were to die in a fight, then be reincarnated I would have quite a bit more knowledge than when I entered the fight. I also think the fantasy mmo’s should move away from the chat box and chat channels. Maybe have a chat box for guilds or friends, but unusable when dead. Again what don’t you like about your current selection and/or your current favorite MMO? |
Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:04 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
Good question! For my part, I think that anything that has to do with classes and the rigid experience level system has to be left behind.
In a game where you know that a single player will be taking a character from level 1 to whatever in 40 hours of play, the class/level system is fine. You hardly have time to get bored with it, and the story in a single-player game is enough to keep you from feeling the tedium associated with it. Most of the time anyway.
In a game where you'll likely play for hundreds of hours with other players, the level/class system's tedium is enough to make you want to bash your head against a wall! Variety should be at the heart of any online game, and a rigid class/level system goes against this. Open-ended skills is what we need! 
_________________
=Proud Father of a new gamer GIRL!=
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Worshiper of the Written Word= |
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Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:25 pm |
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Kaniver
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Western Oregon |
Stop with the buggy, incomplete releases. It is becoming apparent that subscribers are less tolerant with buggy clients and incomplete story lines.
Death needs to have serious consequences to factored into the decision making process. SHould I charge full steam ahead into that group of Marengi Wadaloops? That might well depend on what you stand to lose / gain. The loss potential needs to be severe enough to make you think long and hard before implementing actions. Actually Perma Death appeals to me. The ultimate punishment . I wouldn't suggest that perma death be activated on any death, but a progressive severity scale. Dragonrealms had permdeath although you could protect yourself by aquiring orbs. It would need to be well thought out. With everyone under the same overshadowing cloud of possible character ending death, well I'm sure things would be done carefully.
Experience loss and equipment losses are other ways that make death painfull in current MMORPG's. How about perma equip loss? Not dropped on your corpse for you to retrieve or some looter to steal, but you drop it ,it's gone. Another way to make death suitably terrifying. |
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Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:38 pm |
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Kaniver
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Western Oregon |
Opened ended skills...ayup.
The more the better. |
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Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:42 pm |
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Korplem
Swashbuckler
Joined: 23 Dec 2002
Posts: 853
Location: Pearl Harbor, HI |
I think leveling should be less emphasized but not removed. If classes were to be left behind I think that there should be enough useful skills to make sure that there isnt a 'perfect' build for a character.
What I think should be left behind is the alienation of players in the form of expansions. Developers should focus on making sure that their world isn't static rather than adding more static land to it. If I leave my starting town for a long time then when I come back I would expect to see some changes, not with everything exactly as I left it.
Anyway, thats enough whining from me. 
_________________
If soot stains your tunic, dye it black. This is vengeance.
-The Prince of Nothing |
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Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:58 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Korplem
I think leveling should be less emphasized but not removed. If classes were to be left behind I think that there should be enough useful skills to make sure that there isnt a 'perfect' build for a character.
That's the whole point of open-ended skill sets. Having just 10 skills in a game isn't nearly enough to make the tedium go away. In that case it would be better to keep classes around! The point is to make a system that offers enough freedom to make a character into whatever you want, without limiting it to certain overused stereotypes.
The more I think about this, the more I think the problem is that historically the RPG genre has been associated with classes and levels, until recently. Because of that, the first ones who made MMORPG's thought that they had to implement things much like they were in single-player games, which is a mistake because of the massive amount of time a player will spend playing that game. At a certain point, a class/level system will make the player feel like he's working instead of playing, and also feeling like a prisonner to whatever class he chose.
Games like EQ and DAoC, or even AO lock you up in a single class from which you can never escape unless you create a brand new player. I think SWG did a good thing in implementing a skills system that allowed the player to re-invent himself whenever he wished without ever having to create a single other character. Of course, SWG's system is far fom perfect, but I think it's a good example for other games to follow.
It's very ironic when you think about it: an MMORPG, by definition, should be very open-ended, but most of them lock you up with a restrictive class and don't allow you to do anything else other than level up... You think we need to leave anything behind that's more important than this?
_________________
=Proud Father of a new gamer GIRL!=
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Worshiper of the Written Word= |
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Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:12 pm |
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Korplem
Swashbuckler
Joined: 23 Dec 2002
Posts: 853
Location: Pearl Harbor, HI |
What I meant (You probably caught this but I'll clarify anyway) is that there should be a lot of useful skills. This doesn't necessarily apply to non-combat skills.
For example they can add 50 combat skills and 10 of them are great while the others are something like 'Throw a box of nails' then those extra 40 are neglected. Sure, 'Throw a box of nails' might make it seem like you are roleplaying a carpenter and give you a sense of uniqueness but not many people would waste the time to use it, much less to get it. In that scenario everybody would be stuck in the class of 'perfect' and as you put it "In that case it would be better to keep classes around!"
_________________
If soot stains your tunic, dye it black. This is vengeance.
-The Prince of Nothing |
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Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:39 pm |
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Kiff
Protector of the Realm
Joined: 27 Oct 2002
Posts: 257
Location: Indiana |
quote:
Originally posted by Korplem
What I think should be left behind is the alienation of players in the form of expansions. Developers should focus on making sure that their world isn't static rather than adding more static land to it. If I leave my starting town for a long time then when I come back I would expect to see some changes, not with everything exactly as I left it.
You made two good points. The first I really hate. In game that have levels I have passed 40 in any of them, and all these expansions are for level higher than that.  I enjoy the lower levels of games. Every expansion that has ever come out have forgotten about the beggining of the game.
Second, I have played Gothic 2, and that is a world that is always moving even if you're not. If you walk into someones house they run in after you to make sure you're not trying to steal; if a monster makes it past the guards into town, everyone in that town starts attacking it.  Also no one is out at night they are all sleeping. I aggree with Korplem static environments should be gotten rid of. |
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Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:46 pm |
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vaticide
Put food in here
Joined: 21 Feb 2002
Posts: 1122
Location: One step behind a toddler bent on destruction. |
My vote would be their current financial strategy. They are outcompeting themselves by charging gamers to play. Sure, the games are expensive and require money (and monkeys) to keep going, but there must be some sort of solution (advertisements?) that would allow players to play MMORPGS for free. With more and more developers fighting over a limited pool of players they are killing each other by essentially forcing the players to choose one game.
-vaticide |
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Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:17 pm |
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Zakhal
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 13 Oct 2002
Posts: 188
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Everquest and uo clones, and shitty releases. That is what is needed to leave behind. New gameplay (ATID, permadeath, adellion, etc) and quality releases (wow?) is somthing i demand before buying one single more mmog. And i havent for several years now. Last one i bought was AO during release *gasp*. And two ultima expansion after that which neither i played more than two weeks...*runs away in shame*...  oh well 
Next time ill just buy a case of beer and blow the money in bar. |
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Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:46 pm |
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Ican
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Posts: 185
Location: UK |
I would like to see the "linear" relationship in power between monsters/characters left behind. I'm fed up of fighting stronger variants of the same mob. It renders the treadmill experience more grinding than it should.
As your experience increases so should your influence and power. MMROPGs just feel like a Soccer League at the moment. You simply move up divisions every so many "levels". The competition remains a constant, and you never really get a chance to exert your prowess on inferior subjects. ( I don't mean griefing here ... )
As others have mentioned I would also like to kiss goodbye to static worlds. Dynamic environments is the way ahead ...and that includes " Gamesmasters" who would regularly participate in events AGAINST the players.
Finally. I would love to leave behind the cartoon atmosphere of some of these MMROPGS. A mature " darker" fantasy setting where decisions and actions have to be measured more carefully would be a dream ! |
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Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:14 pm |
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Ekim
Eagle's Shadow
Joined: 27 May 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Montreal, Canada |
quote:
Originally posted by Ican
Finally. I would love to leave behind the cartoon atmosphere of some of these MMROPGS. A mature " darker" fantasy setting where decisions and actions have to be measured more carefully would be a dream !
I don't agree that this should systematically be left behind though. There is definately room for any look and feel for different games. There are games that are coming out which will definately have a more realistic look to them (keep a very close watch on Wish and Realms of Torment). From what I've seen and tried of Wish - which is very little - I can definately tell you that it's more realistic than whatever came before it, as far as looks go.
The cartoonish look definately has an audience, and you can't disregard it because you don't personally like it.  I, for one, don't mind the look of a game so long as it's a good game.
_________________
=Proud Father of a new gamer GIRL!=
=Member of The Nonflamers' Guild=
=Worshiper of the Written Word= |
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Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:22 pm |
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Kaniver
Eager Tradesman
Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Western Oregon |
On the subject of "cartoonish" I feel emersiveness is the key factor. This involves a couple of things. Movement mechanics should be fluid and not cha-chunky as choppiness takes away from the atmosphere. One of the games mentioned previously has a point and click movement scheme. In a MMORPG PnC is absolutely horrid to me personally and I would never consider playing such a game. It is a real strain on the hands and wrists over time and really poor in certrain areas such as dungeons.
The folks at Blizzard seem to have cartoonish done quite well. Some of there screenshots are absolutely mesmerizing and I anxiously await taking this one through it's paces. I also understand that these type of graphics are easier on system requirements and will run on moderately powerfull machines.
The colorfullness of the WOW screenshots are really beautifull to me. It looks like a fantasy world to get lost in.
A game with more realistic graphics that looks very interesting is Dark & Light. It seems to be moving foward at a snails pace as all of these type games do. I am not sure if they can actually pull it all together. It's a very ambitious project. |
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Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:17 pm |
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Kiff
Protector of the Realm
Joined: 27 Oct 2002
Posts: 257
Location: Indiana |
I don't think this would be a problem in a game that is skill based and has no classes, because I think people would be less likely to start characters over, but I would like to see the ability to have multipule characters on one server left behind. If you ask me in these classes games giving us (gamers) the ability to have multipule characters on one server makes it to easy when you want to start another class. But even in skill based games I still dont' think people should be allowed to have multipule characters on the same server. Just MHO. I know this makes it hard when you want to play a different class, with your same friends, but that is just more reason not to have this feature, that is where PL'ing comes into play. |
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Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:29 pm |
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Ican
Captain of the Guard
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Posts: 185
Location: UK |
Good call Kiff. I too would like to see multiple characters abandoned. I think they just allow people to hide from the consequences of their actions.
With regards "cartoonish" looks, if the immersion is good, then it can work. For instance, I actually like WC3 a lot. I would just like a change of pace/scene .... that's all. And I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling this. |
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Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:18 pm |
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